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Elderly parents
Original poster

Deceased mums partner

65 replies

Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 14:49

My Mum died unexpectedly a few months ago and left a will passing everything onto me and my brother. Her partner of 20 years is allowed to remain in the house until he dies or no longer wants to live there, he is 82.
I have no real relationship or affection for him and he has been quite unpleasant at times but we included him in our family due to my Mum and he was generally inoffensive most of the time, although he didn’t really add much to the holidays, events etc we included him in. He has a daughter quite a distance away who has visited twice a year and phoned once a week but that’s all, this was usually driven by my Mum.
Both of them had health issues and we had been talking to them about moving into more supported accommodation, my Mum actually said that while she would rather die than go into a home He would be quite happy. Mum had carers 4 times a day but it was starting to not be enough as her Partner had previously been able to help but was now unable or unwilling to. The carers were helping him a bit but they shouldn’t have been and they did phone me to say it couldn’t continue.
Now her partner is alone in the house, his daughter has arranged carers but expects me and my brother to call in once a week, which I don’t want to do. I have had emails from carers and neighbours expressing concern about him and I have passed these onto his daughter and/or encouraged them to speak to her direct. She says he’s fine and bats away any concerns. I am not sure but while she is wealthy I don’t think her father has much money
I am not sure what if anything I should be doing, I am concerned about him (he has health issues including dementia) but the more support I give the easier it is for his daughter to say he’s fine, plus I don’t want to go to the house where my Mum died really. I don’t want anything to happen to him but it seems he’s not really coping. My brother has expressed concerns about the house as well as he wouldn’t be able to arrange a plumber for example or anything like that and under the terms of the will he has to properly maintain the house (to be fair my brother probably does want the money from the house too). My brother thinks we have to let him fail so his daughter faces reality. I am not judging his daughter at all for her lack of relationship with him, I am sure she has her reasons but he’s not my responsibility either.
I have his POA should it be necessary but I don’t want to use it - plus he generally IS competent .
I would be straight there in an emergency or if he needed specific help with something but I am happy never to see him again to be honest.
Sorry so long

OP posts:
hattie43 · 12/04/2023 20:14

Out of interest if OP knows he is vulnerable, knows his daughter is not interested and lives a distance away , if she should step away and leave them to it could she be charged with neglect if he should befall an accident or die in bed and not discovered ? I'm interested because I also have an elderly frail step father who I'm not close to and his family are estranged from him and would find myself in this situation should my mum pass first .

SheilaFentiman · 12/04/2023 20:12

@Hoppinggreen can you say to his DD “he’s not my relative, I will call him once a fortnight and drop by every couple of months” (or whatever you are ok with) “beyond that it’s up to you and your relatives”

TheSparkling · 12/04/2023 19:59

I think keeping the POAs is absolutely essential for you. It means you have control of the situation. Clearly his daughter isn't going to get involved any more than she is but it's in your interests to be able to maintain the house.

It's a tough situation because there is little you can do until something happens which means social services have to step in.
What you don't have to do is anything his daughter asks you to and I think making this clear to her (for example when she phoned to tell you to step up while she is away) and then sticking to it is essential.

Clymene · 12/04/2023 19:59

What a really horrible and difficult situation. I would contact Age UK for advice but effectively what you think overrules his daughter. If you, his carers and neighbours don't think he can live alone, he needs to move to a residential home. If he has no assets, then that will be paid for by social services.

You do not need to feel guilty. You have to protect your asset.

Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 19:56

ConkerBonkers · 12/04/2023 19:47

Goodness! I think you should follow your brother's lead, and also get the poa revoked.

The POA actually might come in handy, but it’s the nuclear option.

OP posts:
ConkerBonkers · 12/04/2023 19:47

Goodness! I think you should follow your brother's lead, and also get the poa revoked.

AnonymousA1 · 12/04/2023 19:41

@SleepingStandingUp no worries I have literally no idea what I did there x

SleepingStandingUp · 12/04/2023 19:37

Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 19:25

She has said she accidentally posted on the wrong thread

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Didn't see your update @AnonymousA1 , sorry. Yes, other poster is being ridiculous, I saw that thread.

Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 19:32

@mdinbc
Thats my dilemma really.
I may have to let things deteriorate, both him and the house, before his family stop with the airy “he’s fine”
His daughter actually messaged me last week to say she’s going on holiday and it’s too expensive to make calls from where she’s going so I will need to keep a closer eye on him, Didn’t ask, told.
I don’t want to say “look, I don’t really like your Dad, never really have and I feel no responsibility or affection for him at all”. I don’t bear him any ill will and I know my Mums life was better with him in it (until the last few years) but he’s just some bloke who lived with my Mum, that’s all and now she’s gone I should be feeling like I have less responsibility not more.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 19:25

SleepingStandingUp · 12/04/2023 19:22

I assume you put that on every thread apart from ones of actual mothers of children starving? Every parking thread, every argument with DH, every annoying MIL?

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She has said she accidentally posted on the wrong thread

OP posts:
SleepingStandingUp · 12/04/2023 19:22

AnonymousA1 · 12/04/2023 18:37

Meanwhile in the real world children are starving 🙄

I assume you put that on every thread apart from ones of actual mothers of children starving? Every parking thread, every argument with DH, every annoying MIL?

mdinbc · 12/04/2023 19:21

A very similar situation happened in my family. Mum died, leaving a life interest in her house for her husband. She owned the house outright before they married. He had adult children not very involved in his life, and living in another city.

After mum died, it became more clear to us how dependant her DH was on her; his dementia became more obvious. He would go for long walks leaving the front door open, he let the kettle boil on the stove until it melted, etc. Thankfully my sister lived in the same town, and had a relationship with mum's DH. Sis had POA, and I have to say his family was also a bit blind to the fact at how incapacitated he really was. She arranged for care and housekeeping to come in (on his wallet), but the house was starting to suffer after six months of him being on his own.

My sister eventually took him around to various care homes and found him one part way between original house and his family. She took care of his finances and visited him every week for the next 7 years of his life. I know that the rest of my family did not have as close a relationship with him, and would have had to have his family intervene on his behalf.

Good luck to you, you will have to force his daughter to make some decisions. You may want to stay as POA just so you know the household bills are being paid. As a reverse, if you let him fail to pay utilities then you have proof that he is not capable of living there, and can further prove to his daughter that he cannot stay in the house.

Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 19:07

EllandRd · 12/04/2023 18:52

Sounds like you want him out so you can sell it.

I can’t say that’s not partly true if I am honest. Not for the money, I always thought my Mum would need expensive care and we would get nothing, but I don’t want to own the house or deal with either my Mums partner, his family or anything else really. At the moment it’s just all another source of stress for me

OP posts:
AnonymousA1 · 12/04/2023 19:01

Oh my god I posted on the wrong thread I was replying to a woman who said she was declining an invite to a party because of a thumbs up 🤦‍♀️

EllandRd · 12/04/2023 18:52

Sounds like you want him out so you can sell it.

Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 18:45

Oldnproud · 12/04/2023 18:32

Don't the POAs mean that you can take any measures that are necessary / in his best interests, from managing his payments (from his accounts/income) to pay for anything essential, from insurance / maintenance of the house, to moving him into care?

I could be wrong, but I don't think it puts you under any extra obligation to visit him more often just because his daughter can't or won't.

Personally, I think you and your late mother's estate might be better managed and protected if you keep the PIAs, rather than revoking them.

Yes that’s right IF I invoke them.
So I suppose in one way it’s better that I DO have them rather than his daughter who I believe DOES care about him but hasn’t had to worry about anything beyond a phone call once a week and a twice a year visit. My Mum handled all the finances and general life admin so he’s a bit clueless, he also doesn’t hear too well so phone calls can be hard for him. He was fully functional because my Mum told him what to do and when to do it

OP posts:
Oldnproud · 12/04/2023 18:45

AnonymousA1 · 12/04/2023 18:37

Meanwhile in the real world children are starving 🙄

And? There are old people starving too. Still a stupid comment, but at least with slightly more relevance to the thread than yours!

Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 18:41

AnonymousA1 · 12/04/2023 18:37

Meanwhile in the real world children are starving 🙄

Thank you, very helpful
And also irrelevant

OP posts:
AnonymousA1 · 12/04/2023 18:37

Meanwhile in the real world children are starving 🙄

Oldnproud · 12/04/2023 18:32

Don't the POAs mean that you can take any measures that are necessary / in his best interests, from managing his payments (from his accounts/income) to pay for anything essential, from insurance / maintenance of the house, to moving him into care?

I could be wrong, but I don't think it puts you under any extra obligation to visit him more often just because his daughter can't or won't.

Personally, I think you and your late mother's estate might be better managed and protected if you keep the PIAs, rather than revoking them.

SheilaFentiman · 12/04/2023 18:00

"He doesn’t want to do this, there are reasons he didn’t pick her in the first place."

Ah, fair enough - though it makes your situation more tricky :-(

Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 17:57

SheilaFentiman · 12/04/2023 17:30

I would also agree that he may have capacity to revoke and re-register a POA with his DD, even if he has dementia - it depends on the severity.

He doesn’t want to do this, there are reasons he didn’t pick her in the first place.
She didn’t actually know until she visited after my Mum died and she found the paperwork- she was not happy
However, she might persuade him.
I have no intention of invoking it as things stand but if I feel he’s in danger due to his illness then I may have to, at that point I would probably try to move him somewhere more suitable to live

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 12/04/2023 17:30

I would also agree that he may have capacity to revoke and re-register a POA with his DD, even if he has dementia - it depends on the severity.

SheilaFentiman · 12/04/2023 17:03

ItsRainingPens · 12/04/2023 16:57

Step right back.
Get the POA removed
Tell his daughter she has to step up
Threaten to remove him if he doesn't maintain the house - and make it clear it is her responsibility to make sure it's done

OP can't get the POA removed, I don't think. The DP would need to revoke it and write a new one. By agreeing to act as an attorney (or replacement attorney), OP made a commitment to do this, even if the expectation was it wouldn't get activated.

ItsRainingPens · 12/04/2023 16:57

Step right back.
Get the POA removed
Tell his daughter she has to step up
Threaten to remove him if he doesn't maintain the house - and make it clear it is her responsibility to make sure it's done