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Elderly parents
Original poster

Deceased mums partner

65 replies

Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 14:49

My Mum died unexpectedly a few months ago and left a will passing everything onto me and my brother. Her partner of 20 years is allowed to remain in the house until he dies or no longer wants to live there, he is 82.
I have no real relationship or affection for him and he has been quite unpleasant at times but we included him in our family due to my Mum and he was generally inoffensive most of the time, although he didn’t really add much to the holidays, events etc we included him in. He has a daughter quite a distance away who has visited twice a year and phoned once a week but that’s all, this was usually driven by my Mum.
Both of them had health issues and we had been talking to them about moving into more supported accommodation, my Mum actually said that while she would rather die than go into a home He would be quite happy. Mum had carers 4 times a day but it was starting to not be enough as her Partner had previously been able to help but was now unable or unwilling to. The carers were helping him a bit but they shouldn’t have been and they did phone me to say it couldn’t continue.
Now her partner is alone in the house, his daughter has arranged carers but expects me and my brother to call in once a week, which I don’t want to do. I have had emails from carers and neighbours expressing concern about him and I have passed these onto his daughter and/or encouraged them to speak to her direct. She says he’s fine and bats away any concerns. I am not sure but while she is wealthy I don’t think her father has much money
I am not sure what if anything I should be doing, I am concerned about him (he has health issues including dementia) but the more support I give the easier it is for his daughter to say he’s fine, plus I don’t want to go to the house where my Mum died really. I don’t want anything to happen to him but it seems he’s not really coping. My brother has expressed concerns about the house as well as he wouldn’t be able to arrange a plumber for example or anything like that and under the terms of the will he has to properly maintain the house (to be fair my brother probably does want the money from the house too). My brother thinks we have to let him fail so his daughter faces reality. I am not judging his daughter at all for her lack of relationship with him, I am sure she has her reasons but he’s not my responsibility either.
I have his POA should it be necessary but I don’t want to use it - plus he generally IS competent .
I would be straight there in an emergency or if he needed specific help with something but I am happy never to see him again to be honest.
Sorry so long

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Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 13/04/2023 10:10

SheilaFentiman · 13/04/2023 10:05

Good luck OP, I hope that probate isn’t too stressful. Come and post in the cockroach cafe if you ever need to vent or have a virtual cuppa.

Thank you.
I have done Probate online and had confirmation they are dealing with it so we will see. There is just the house and 1 bank account so shouldn’t be too bad

OP posts:
Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 13/04/2023 10:10

MereDintofPandiculation · 13/04/2023 09:20

Once you own the house, you’ll find you need Landlord’s insurance, despite it being occupied by a family member and you getting no rent.

Thank you.
It is leasehold so the insurance is covered via that.

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 13/04/2023 10:05

Good luck OP, I hope that probate isn’t too stressful. Come and post in the cockroach cafe if you ever need to vent or have a virtual cuppa.

MereDintofPandiculation · 13/04/2023 09:20

Once you own the house, you’ll find you need Landlord’s insurance, despite it being occupied by a family member and you getting no rent.

Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 13/04/2023 09:13

Thank you to everyone who has commented, especially those who said they were sorry for the loss of my Mum.
Just to clarify a few things
My Mums Partner is ok for now, he has carers calling in twice a day to see to his basic needs. The danger is if he goes out or anything happens out of the ordinary as he gets easily confused. He is also lonely and his MH is not good.
His daughter has not actually asked or told us to visit him, I was told by a carers who expressed concern that the daughter said me and my brother visited regularly. She has just assumed.
The Daughter prefers to deal with my brother as on the surface he seems more amenable but he really isn’t. Also she is a bit more wary of me in general as I won’t just tell her what she wants to hear - apparently he will be fine when he gets over Covid (I know Covid can have long term effects but he’s no better or worse since he had it). Also when I went to my Mums 2 days after she died to collect some things she was there and followed me around telling me what I could and couldn’t touch until I basically told her to F off so she knows not to push me too far.
The daughter lives 300 miles away and has a very important job so daily visits are out. I don’t know when/if she plans to visit again.
In no way do I judge her for the relationship (or lack of) with her father, he has another daughter who he hasn’t seen for 30 years which speaks volumes to me BUT he’s certainly not my responsibility either.
I am still waiting for Probate so we don’t officially own the house yet, once that happens we will review the situation

OP posts:
Yellowdays · 12/04/2023 22:54

justanotherdramas suggestion is a good approach.

Yellowdays · 12/04/2023 22:53

I'd also arrange an assessment. I think I'd politely also be putting the daughter straight, which would incidentally help with how she speaks to you.

justanotherdrama · 12/04/2023 22:30

Sorry clicked post too quick

I'm sorry for your loss and for having to deal with this it all sounds very upsetting and stressful

justanotherdrama · 12/04/2023 22:28

@Hoppinggreen

What a nightmare I feel for you;

I'd be contacting his daughter and having a very frank and honest discussion with her about things moving forward

Say your perfectly happy if he wants to remain in the house but you aren't doing weekly visits as he's not your responsibility but that he would adopt a more "un-paying tennant" role and landlords are not carers and reiterate about his responsibilities for bills and maintenance eg plumbers and what the arrangements are and have an agreement drawn up

If she feels he needs more input then it's up to her to make the necessary arrangements for her father and If she'd rather he stays in the house she should be the one doing weekly visits not you.

whatwillfrankdonow · 12/04/2023 21:37

Crikey what a nightmare. Sorry about your Mum OP. Difficult situation! Poor chap I guess he has no one really either. Moving someone with dementia is probably not the best thing to do. No easy answers here except that can you get a partner or friend to collect some of your mums things for now… until you feel more up to sorting things out.

Obviously you explain to his daughter that you cannot look after him. He’s not your responsibility. His family - her ! - need to make appropriate care arrangements.

Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 21:24

whatsyourpoison12 · 12/04/2023 21:03

how is his health in general?

He has some health issues, dementia, heart problems, a series of TIAs .
Nothing terrible but he’s not very well and he’s very wobbly and confused at times

OP posts:
Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 21:22

SmallElephants · 12/04/2023 21:06

As poa you have a legal duty to act in his interests. The onus is on you , Op, if he lacks capacity in any relevant area.

I haven’t invoked it so as I understand it I have no legal duty as yet

OP posts:
Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 21:21

idontlikementhols · 12/04/2023 20:50

Poor man. Elderly, vulnerable, ill, and no one can be bothered with him.

There’s so much more to it than that

OP posts:
SmallElephants · 12/04/2023 21:06

As poa you have a legal duty to act in his interests. The onus is on you , Op, if he lacks capacity in any relevant area.

whatsyourpoison12 · 12/04/2023 21:03

how is his health in general?

Tracker1234 · 12/04/2023 21:03

Probate is a complete disgrace and I am not sure why it’s not getting more attention. Weeks and weeks of delay. Horrendous forms to fill in and no one seems to care!

McSlowburn · 12/04/2023 20:57

Tracker1234 · 12/04/2023 15:30

Itss really tricky isnt it? Good on your Mum stating that he stays there until he passes. Some wills leave it very woolly or there isnt a will.

However as a society (tin hat at the ready) we are patting ourselves on the back due to people living so much longer and there is a billion £ industry regarding care for people who cannot take care of themselves. People are living much much longer but what is the quality of life?

Been there I am afraid. That industry charges £££ because they can. The alternative is that you do it.

I think you need to be really clear. The emergency number and contact details are his daughters. She needs to feel the pain of this and make arrangements. You are not the arrangement!

This! It's a complete quagmire but just take a deep breath and take your time to work through what you need to do. Good luck.

Am working through similar stress with probate/planning permission before properties can be sold, whilst grieving for the loss of two parents.

I had a really helpful chat with a close friend today who advised me to readjust and just expect complications and be ready. It did really help me stop catastrophising and just start making practical steps forward. Its little steps at this point.

idontlikementhols · 12/04/2023 20:50

Poor man. Elderly, vulnerable, ill, and no one can be bothered with him.

TennisWithDeborah · 12/04/2023 20:45

I understand the daughter’s position because I have one living parent whom I dislike and have as little to do with as possible. I understand why she is trying to bat responsibility over to you. But that doesn’t mean that it’s ok and that you have to accept it.

As he gets frailer and time passes, it will all get more difficult and you might find yourself enmeshed and unable to find a way out of it.

I think you need to be gently candid with her asap and explain that you and/or your brother will visit him socially every couple of weeks out of respect for the fact that he was your mum’s OH and made her happy, and that you will be keeping track of the condition of the property as per the terms of the Will, but that you will not be liaising with carers or making arrangements for him.

If she chooses to keep her distance (which is her prerogative) then eventually he will have to move into residential care.

MereDintofPandiculation · 12/04/2023 20:38

SleepingStandingUp · 12/04/2023 19:22

I assume you put that on every thread apart from ones of actual mothers of children starving? Every parking thread, every argument with DH, every annoying MIL?

Show quote history

She’s already explained she accidentally posted to the wrong thread

Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 20:25

JennyMule · 12/04/2023 20:18

OP if your late mother's husband has care needs - sounds like he does because your DM's carers helped him as well as her - the starting point is to request a Care Act assessment from adult social care. As LPA you have the standing to do so (even though you would only be making decisions as LPA(HW) that the donor lacks the mental capacity to make himself, and it's not clear if he lacks capacity- the presumption unless there's evidence otherwise is that a person has capacity.) Most LAs have an online portal (bit like an assessment via survey monkey!) which you fill in explaining how he's unable to do certain things, struggles to do others, has no informal help (dtr lives away, you & DB can't provide practical help beyond decision making as required as Attorneys) and (eventually) DM's husband will be told what help he'd be entitled to. Financial assessment follows, ie where the LA works out how much care they'll fund and what he must contribute. If he's clueless about finances you can complete the financial declaration for him. If he declined care he needs to remain safely at home, or lacks the Income to maintain the property those would be grounds for you to discuss/consider whether it is possible for him to remain. However there is an obvious conflict of interest inherent in your and DB position which you may struggle to manage and taking legal advice would probably be a good idea if you got to that point (e.g.to allay concerns from his dtr which could include referring your actions to the OPG.)

His daughter has done this I believe
And they were not married

OP posts:
Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 20:24

LadyGardenersQuestionTime · 12/04/2023 20:16

God, what a mess.

What level of help does he actually need? And can any/all of it be delivered by carers rather than you? Does he have a diagnosis of dementia?

He is on medication for Alzheimers
He has council carers who call for 30 minutes twice a day (although I have been told it’s around 10 minutes and they barely speak to him). My Mum arranged private carers to come to help him once a week to take him for a walk or similar and they still come. They used to be my Mums carers and are lovely, they are the ones who have expressed concern but have been told there’s no issue by the daughter .
He is probably ok in the house but if he went out alone it would be risky, he is wobbly and has ended up unsure of where he was. He also invited a homeless man to come round to get some money - my Mum was home alone when the man came round but luckily left when she told him to (he walked straight in to the house). There are other things too, he barely recognised anyone at my Mums funeral and did something awful I don’t want to talk about.
If told to do things he can mostly do them but if not he will mostly just sleep, I don’t think he gets up most days

OP posts:
JennyMule · 12/04/2023 20:18

OP if your late mother's husband has care needs - sounds like he does because your DM's carers helped him as well as her - the starting point is to request a Care Act assessment from adult social care. As LPA you have the standing to do so (even though you would only be making decisions as LPA(HW) that the donor lacks the mental capacity to make himself, and it's not clear if he lacks capacity- the presumption unless there's evidence otherwise is that a person has capacity.) Most LAs have an online portal (bit like an assessment via survey monkey!) which you fill in explaining how he's unable to do certain things, struggles to do others, has no informal help (dtr lives away, you & DB can't provide practical help beyond decision making as required as Attorneys) and (eventually) DM's husband will be told what help he'd be entitled to. Financial assessment follows, ie where the LA works out how much care they'll fund and what he must contribute. If he's clueless about finances you can complete the financial declaration for him. If he declined care he needs to remain safely at home, or lacks the Income to maintain the property those would be grounds for you to discuss/consider whether it is possible for him to remain. However there is an obvious conflict of interest inherent in your and DB position which you may struggle to manage and taking legal advice would probably be a good idea if you got to that point (e.g.to allay concerns from his dtr which could include referring your actions to the OPG.)

Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 12/04/2023 20:16

I am in no way responsible for him unless I invoke the POA so no, I couldn’t be charged with neglect. That’s not a concern at all

OP posts:
LadyGardenersQuestionTime · 12/04/2023 20:16

God, what a mess.

What level of help does he actually need? And can any/all of it be delivered by carers rather than you? Does he have a diagnosis of dementia?

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