The Cockroach Cafe 🪳 Spring 2023

what I'm trying to say in my rambly way is "No, you can't make anyone help care for elderly person, it's their choice and in the end they will have to square it with their own conscious".

I agree. And I would also add that they should recognise that others will also react according to their conscience and they can’t control that. @Ameanstreakamilewide, what strikes me from your post is that it may be helpful for your DH and siblings to come to terms with who they are helping and why. Is it your mum-in-law, or is it the sister? If there are legacy sibling relationship niggles, and/or a degree of burying head in sand on the reality of the situation then I could see how that could start to cause tension and be a bit messy. It’s hard enough dealing with it all when family is in agreement!

Their relationship with their mum is clouding their judgement, i think, @Lightuptheroom, so you're spot on.

Where there are sticky points in their childhoods, etc, they lay the blame solely at their mum's door, and i'm not sure why they're so content to do that.
I have to defend her every time it comes up, cos it's simply not fair. She's a wonderful Mum, Grandmother and wife; and Jesus Christ, no one's perfect...

They said they're happy to help out because it's for their dad's benefit, and not simply because it would be helping their mum. Which blew my mind last night, quite frankly. That's some mental contortions going on there.

MissMarplesNiece I didn't post about siblings not helping, that was Ameanstreak

@GordonBennett345 My husband and his younger brother are still in denial about how unwell their Dad is.
They seem to be under the impression that my mil and sil are catastrophising; which they do have form for, admittedly.
But, i think this is the denial talking...

It's only by them getting off their arses and putting in the hours in with their Dad that they'll fully appreciate their Mum and sister's predicament.

@Ameanstreakamilewide agree with pps here. If they don't want to help, they don't have to. I'm having similar issues with family members who clearly are not going to help and are just waiting for their inheritance! At the same time, I'm also aware that I have a choice too so trying to be clear where my support has to stop. It's sounds like your husband has done a really good and responsible thing in trying to get further support but unfortunately, he can only make them more aware though it might not change their response. Hope it all works out!

@Lightuptheroom Very well put.

It's frustrating & also hurtful when a sibling won't help. My DB has gone NC with my DM and me & my dSis. There were no real expectations for him to do anything to care for DM but, in his own words to me "Dont care. Not interested". DM was very unpleasant to him on many ocassions - she does think she can say what she likes to anyone and they'll just suck it up. I guess he just had enough and walked away. So, @EmmaEmerald , what I'm trying to say in my rambly way is "No, you can't make anyone help care for elderly person, it's their choice and in the end they will have to square it with their own conscious".

@Ameanstreakamilewide nobody can make them want to do anything. Yes, it would be nice if they chose to help out a bit, but often logistics and relationships with their parents come into play.
Essentially one person doesn't get to decide what anyone else wants to contribute to the issue. In your case BIL doesn't get to tell the other brothers that their sister is shouldering the burden and what are they intending to do about it because everyone has freedom of choice.
I choose to 'care about ' my parents, I have made it clear I will never care FOR them. I have 5 siblings. 4 of those siblings do absolutely nothing out of choice (but still have very loud opinions at times) 1 does about 60% of the life admin, which as my mum particularly loathes this sibling they are very very lucky to get. I take the pressure off the 1 sibling as much as I can.
Care can be paid for, nobody has to become anything they don't want to be in these relationships. Outsourcing care come with risks, but I've spent a lot of years working in elderly care and sheltered housing, so I have the benefit of knowing that I'm not going to be able to somehow stop the falling, the decline, the aging process, and in all of it my daughter relationship with my parents is more important than being their carer

It's tricky when siblings want to/are able to do different amounts in terms of supporting parents. What isn't OK is to bury their heads in the sand and pretend there isn't an issue, if there is. Your DH snd his DB should at least be working with their DSis to arrange help and care as required.

Gordon and MissM, thank you, I appreciate that.

Ameanstreak, yes, of course they can wash their hands of it.

There was a conversation between my husband and his siblings last night, which was quite fraught at times.

My eldest BiL asked both brothers to join the call because their sister was really struggling and needed some support.
They did it on Comms, on Discord, so i didn't catch everything that was said, but the bottom line was Peter (not his real name) has made it clear that they both need to be supporting their Mum and sister a lot more.

He put them right about some misconceptions they both seem to have picked up from somewhere, which is possibly just 'legacy sibling gripes', as i call it. They said their sister, Grace (again, not her real name) was 'controlling' and need to leave their parents alone a little bit.

I stayed quiet during the call, as it's partly none of my business, but, afterwards i started mulling over a couple of things.
Suppose the siblings simply don't want to help out? I know morally/ethically, it's a shitty thing to do, but they can simply wash their hands of the whole affair, can't they??
I don't know what i'm trying to express there...

I realise that i'm treating this thread like a diary, so i apologise if that's not cricket, but i need to get this off my chest.

@EmmaEmerald I understand. 💐

💐for you, EmmaEmerald. I'm relatively early on in the process and am trying to decide and set my boundaries.

Today is one of those days I have nothing but incoherent rage at how I ended up here. Thank you for giving a space where people can say that.

Mum was supposed to have a follow up appt for a colonoscopy. She kept cancelling. I didn't have POA so there was nothing to be done. They discharged her in the end.

Could you tell him it’s for something different, or that one of the tests needs to be repeated?

Advice needed... My dad has lung disease... He had a lung function test last week and is now telling everyone that the man who did the test told him he didn't need to go to the follow up appointment with the consultant. (No such conversation took place as my sister was with him the whole time)
He has a history of deciding what appointments he will go to, winding my mum up so badly that she cancels the appointments and just generally making life difficult. We know it's his choice, but ultimately he needs to go to this appointment.

Indeed. I've been lurking for a couple of weeks and knew i'd found the right place. I suspect i'll be back again soon, so i appreciate the warm welcome.

No problem. Sadly it’s a long hard road and I’ve found the “café“ to be a great place for moral support and practical advice, it’s been invaluable to me. Welcome and sorry you have to be here.

Thank you so much @funnelfan . That's excellent advice.

@Ameanstreakamilewide you need to contact the adult social care services of their local authority (whoever they pay their council tax to) and request an assessment for your PIL. Anyone can do this on behalf of someone else if they have a concern. They will take it from there - they will get a visit from a social worker who will see how they’re managing and if they consider care is needed then it will be commissioned through them. They will also do a financial assessment and this will determine how much of a contribution they make towards care costs.

as an example, my mum was assessed as needing carers visiting four times a day, arranged via her council and we pay the council for it. They help her get up and washed and dressed, and prepare simple meals for her (we stock the fridge once a week). They give her her medication (she has a blister pack from the pharmacy and they are allowed to give tablets from that). They check her incontinence pads and wash up the pots from her previous meal. The house is getting grubby, so we approached the agency and they have arranged for one of her regular carers to do some cleaning, and this is deemed “private” and we pay the agency directly for this.

i was in exactly your position last year, knowing mum needed help but refusing it and I was overwhelmed on where to start and where to go. I found getting her “in the system” was a huge help, as then you’re on a conveyor belt and talking to people who know what they’re doing. However she still needs a strong advocate to manage all of this, and as your SIL has POA, a lot will fall to her. You are right that your DH and his brother need to step up and I’m sure your SIL will be grateful for your support in making this happen. Unfortunately, some people do find it hard to accept this is happening, my brother did. He’s on board now, but he’s had a hard time emotionally seeing our strong mum become a frail confused old lady.

@GordonBennett345 yes, that's what a friend said when we moved closer to DM - you still don't have to be the one to respond to anything, even an emergency. I didn't pick up a msg about an A&E admittance until 8 hours after it had happened as it had come in about five minutes after my work DND started.

So hospital staff just had to deal with it. I ended up not needing to go at all in the end.

Practically speaking, if I had gone, I wasn't needed and it would have used up a day of my annual leave which I need for DH, DD and my sanity, so having Do Not Disturb on the phone is brilliant!

Thank you so much for such a comprehensive response, @countrygirl99, i'm much obliged.

I've been waiting to get this off my chest for a while.

@thesandwich My SiL now has PoA. The siblings didn't think it was necessary while my MiL still has capacity, but it turns out it's much simpler this way, for both parties.

With a dementia diagnosis they are entitled to a reduction in council tax- alzeheimers society should be able to advise.
most importantly, does anyone have power of attorney for them? Could a block be put on by the bank?

@Ameanstreakamilewide my in laws had care fully funded by the council ss they had very little money. I can't remember the exact figures and they've probably gone up but below circa £13.5k it's fully funded (and any joint savings are split so work it right and it's £27k a couple) and below £23k it's partially funded. But they will fund what they deem necessary for personal care, not cleaners etc. House value is ignored as long as there is one of them living there.
Also look at attendance allowance. It's not means tested and can be used to fund any help needed.
Age UK are a good source of advice. They help ILs ensure they were getting all the benefits they were entitled to and also put them in touch with an advocate who could talk to the council about care needs with the voice of experience.