Siblings want to put mum in a home

@Trez1510 - I agree with you wholeheartedly, although I am one of the 10!

We don’t know how much the mum’s house sold for! If the mum lived in a 2 bed terraced house in, for example, the North East/West, it may have not sold for much money 7yrs ago.

If someone moves into an OAP flat or sheltered housing ( not residential care )they still have to pay for utilities and service charges. And then there’s other personal costs on top like food, clothing etc. www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/housing-options/sheltered-housing/

I agree the state will not pick up the tab here.

The point I was attempting to make is a lot of posters are following the OPs lead and insinuating the caring sister has, somehow, ripped-off their mother financially. The mother chose to do what she has done. The mother will face the consequences of those choices e.g. she will now have to rely on her daughter (and possibly other children) to fund her care home fees.

The part about the estate was to underline the mother could have chosen to distribute it, when the time comes, in any way she chooses.

Being Scottish, I'm aware of the different inheritance laws here. Given we're outnumbered here 10:1, I've assumed this scenario is English based. 😛

A friend of mine did this, took on her elderly nana who had a new dementia diagnosis. Took her money and Built a one bedroom extension and other room as a playroom for her two children.

Did not care for nana at all... left her day in day out alone with a sand which and tv re runs. She barely got out the house and as such her dementia roll hold very quickly. First time she had a bad fall she was whisked off to a home state funded.

Full turn around was about 11 months. So very cruel

@Trez1510 Obviously the mother can leave her estate to who she wants as long as she does not live in Scotland, But the point is the mother has not died. There is no estate. Her sisters house is her home and she has paid money into the house. This gives her rights of occupation. The state will not just ignore that or ignore the money she paid in.
The sister seems to think she can keep the money her mum gave her and the state will pay for any care home. That is very unlikely.

Well said.

Bloody hell. I was using the exact phrase someone else used.
I have been a bloody carer. And I have a disabled husband and children.

I think a lot of readers are overlooking the fact the mother retains mental capacity. Therefore, any choices the mother made about her financial arrangements have been just that: her choices.

Whether you, me or the postman agree with those choices is neither here nor there. Whether the HMRC and/or the local authority consider them legal/appropriate choices is far more important and, ultimately, the person making the choices will be held responsible for the choices.

Without the current situation having developed, as a pp said, the mother could have, for instance, chosen to leave her estate 90% to the daughter who provided care, 5% each to the two other siblings and zero to the OP. In fact, she could have chosen to pay the caring daughter £5k per month if she wanted to do so. Her choice.

Yes, that is the average, some will be lower, some higher. Thing is OP doesn't seem to know much about the situation at all, the extent of her involvement seems to be that she calls up every so often and starts a row with an old lady. She needs to find more information and walk a day in her sister's shoes before she throws about any accusations.

@AllOutofEverything - if you think caring for an elderly person 24/7 is just “including someone in your family life” you are woefully naive. It’s not the same as caring for a child, it’s much harder.

You have no way of knowing that the sister has ripped the mother off from what OP has said. It will depend on the amount of money she gave over, the cost of the annex, the cost of council tax and utilities for the annex, and food if not paid for separately. The OP says her mother moved areas to live with her sister, she could have moved from a much cheaper area to a much more expensive one. An annex with a kitchen and bathroom fitted could easily cost £100k in the SE for a basic fit. But even if she has pocketed cash, the mother, who OP acknowledges is mentally competent, chose to give it to OP’s sister. Maybe she had always intended for everything to go to OP’s sister anyway, who knows.

I was not suggesting she charges for care. I was comparing it with the money saved on care. OP seems very concerned her sister has her inheritance, I was saying the alternative was it went on carers probably. However, why should the OPs sister take on all the burden whilst OP does nothing but still gets an equal inheritance?

@DangerNoodles It is a 1 bedroom extension. But who knows how much the mother has given the daughter over the 7 years? The average house price in the UK is £249,000

I am sickened at the idea the sister should effectively charge her mother for including her in family life. Bloody hell.

Anyway Social Services will not agree. The sister's plan of getting the state to pay for a care home is unlikely to work. And Social Services will not subtract large amounts of money from the mothers assets because her daughter included her in family life.

Are you really suggesting the sister effectively charges her mum for any care provided?

Op has said herself that someone is always with her mother, given that she refuses carers that someone is going to be her sister or her husband. How are they paying the bills on a family house with an annexe if they have restricted thier earning capabilities so they can care for the mum. What other expenses have they paid on the mother's behalf.

Where I live you can buy a small house or flat with less money than the cost a two story extension, so over 7 years someone in the sister's position could end up being very out of pocket. Obviously if the mum lived in Kensington that's a different story!

Op needs to dig a little deeper and think carefully before she decides to report her sister, otherwise she might end up looking very silly and estranged from her family.

I agree. Work out how much your mother would have had to pay for care during the last seven years, day in day out, with the assurance that night time help if needed was close by. I assume your mum has been included in family life, has been given clean clothes, clean bedding, a warm clean home, companionship, that her medical needs have been met, prescriptions dealt with, doctor and hospital appointments attended etc etc etc.

Hells bells, your sister has earned that extra bedroom with knobs on. I wonder how many times in that seven years you have said to her, “ hey, we’re thinking of coming up for a few days ,or a week, so you and BIL can have some time to yourselves and we will make sure mum has a good time so don’t worry about her.” Or “ we’ve booked a cottage for a week and really want to take mum too, what do you think?”

But that is why there needs to be a care assessment.
And if she can go home then the medics will probably just drop off the mum at the house. People do not understand how this all works. The state will do what it can to avoid paying for care.
I agree with you.
There's a huge push to avoid paying anything for care. It's why I have some sympathy for the OP's sister trying to push the situation by being unwilling to say everything is fine and let's get straight home. Squeaky wheels get the oil so to speak.

On a tangent it's why it laughable at a time when there's a refusal to accept older members of society need care,band a refusal to accept children might need a parent around, that there's a huge push to get everyone working silly work hours. Who do the government think is going to be providing all this ad hoc care?

The mum now has no money to pay for a care home so must have given over everything.
Are you really suggesting the sister effectively charges her mum for any care provided?
The sister has clearly ripped off her mum.

I think both OP and her sister and other siblings are in a bind depending on how they sorted out DM's gift of money to OP's Sis who has looked after her for 7 years.

If DM doesn't want to move into a home she can't be forced to nor can she be forced to accept outside carers.

It sounds as if DSis needs to check her financial arrangement with her mum with a good solicitor. It sounds as if OP needs to visit DM with other siblings. And that they do research on local care homes.

We had to do a similar softly softly with my mum, she now has 3 care visits a day (paid privately). Took a long time to get her there!

@AllOutofEverything - depends where the mum and sister live, if there were any debts secured on the house like equity release. Did the Mum give over everything or just the amount to built the annex? Has the sister been paying for food. Live in carers can cost £40k a year.

@justasking111 The issue is it is not just their home, it is their mums as well and she has contributed financially to it.
Even if she is eligible for a care home Social Services will probably put a charge back on the sisters house in lieu of this.

I did not realise you were including the utilities and social input the sister has been providing that these flats provide. But £71k will still be way less than the house the mum sold and have the money to the sister. There is no money left.

I agree 7 yrs is a long time - but it is also suspiciously the same amount of time that it is acceptable to take large lump sums from a parents estate so if it is truly an annex to the home it really won't be a big thing

After seven years of caring the thought of a lodger is awful. Let them have their home back. Caring for an aged parent affects, partner and children.

In terms of the house situation, maybe suggest the one bed bit be rented out to a lodger (officially) and the money used to assist with paying for Mums care in some way - extras, clothes, nice snacks etc cos lets face it its a tip of an ocean against care fees.