Siblings want to put mum in a home

This this this. When you have emptied the catheter bags, then you get a fucking say.

I cant help thinking your sister has shot herself in the foot, she'll be on the hook for carehome fees...surely?

You're completely wrong to think a live in carer is cheaper. Most people would prefer this option but few can afford it. A live in care package can be that amount a week.

So is a care home. The ones near me are around £8,000 a.month..

Almost no one can afford a live in carer. It is thousands and thousands a month.

I would ask for a referral to social services and tell them you think your mum is being financially abused.

Make sure the hospital is aware.

You're doing yourself no favours trying to paint your sister as materialistic. She deserves your gratitude as there is no amount of money that can really cover the ongoing obligations and duty she's been shouldering to ensure your mum is cared for.

As much as your mum's wishes are important, it sounds like she is utterly intransigent on the subject of having help because she knows your sister is there and this is to her own detriment because your sister can't be everywhere at once. The stress of trying to keep her happy and safe may well be unbearable and the last thing they need is you turning up encouraging her to think your sister can manage when she can't.

Remember, you swan home without changing an incontinence pad, dressing an ulcer, ordering a mobility aid, fixing her glasses, sorting out the prescription mix up, finding out why she didn't take her last tablets, arranging a check up with the district nurse, doing a wash of all bedsheets, hiring a carpet cleaner, taking her to get her hair done and accompanying her into the garden at the very moment the children get home from school and the GP finally calls. Your sister probably does an increasing amount of this on repeat for months. If she also works, she's sunk. You need to cut your sister some slack as it's hard to imagine what caring for an elderly relative can be like until you're doing it. I have done it and baby triplets would have been easier.

Really, the money is the least important thing here. Getting your mum the help she needs and making her as happy as she safely can be without jeopardizing the wellbeing of your sister's family is the priory.

It was naive for anyone to think a blanket reassurance could be given regarding residential care but it doesn't mean your sister is not in good faith. I think she's shown that she is, if your mum chose to move closer to her. Are you sure you're not just feeling out of the loop?

i think sis not doing 2 bed granny flat and doing an extra room for herself instead might be the critical point.
if your dm could have 2 bed flat then someone (a carer perhaps) could stay full time in her 2nd bedroom and she wouldnt need to go to a care home. thats what she thought at the beginning i suppose.
but i dont know how your sis got her extra bed room, how she convinced your dm.

Hmmmm …your DSis has shared her home with your mum and been responsible for her for 7 long years……thats puts a whole different spin on the situation…..and if your mum is refusing input that would reduce the risk of her coming to harm….then I can’t blame your DSis for suggesting a care home….it is what it is OP ….I don’t think deprivation of assets would apply in this case…maybe just need to let them get on with it

When you've visited your mum in the past, hio has she seemed? Did she seem well cared for, comfortable, comfortable in conversation - like her normal self - despite your sis's presence, or did she seem worried, or that she needed to be careful what she said? Did she talk about specific things your sis does for her, places she'd been, days out etc?

There's no doubt that sometimes dealing with an elderly parent is a hard thing to do. My own gm lived with us which is on reason my mum was aware of the pitfalls of living with a married dd and her children which is another reason why she was quite careful about the extent of her involvement. My gm and mum ironed things between them long before I would have been aware there might be problems and we all lived pretty happily together (just like dd, I adored my own gm!).

When my gm needed to have someone about all the time, it became difficult as us kids were all adults and working, though 2 of us still living at home. Mum and dad both working too. After a year of trying tojuggle everything, gm went to my aunt's who didn't work was at home, and within a few months had gone into a home as my aunt couldn't cope. Aunt had really REALLY wanted gm there, wanted to look after her. I don't doubt her intentions at all though I was angry at the time.

Your sis has probably saved you vast amounts of care home fees already though.

But yes, I think you need to bit the bullet, get there and find out what's going on in your mum's head.

There's actually a term for this 'daughter from california syndrome' where a family member who hasn't been there day to day is surprised at the deterioration of their parent and challenges the care that has been given and may have unrealistic expectations of what is medically feasible. It feeds off guilt and denial and not necessarily what is right for the parent.

You live an hour and a half away. Show up and be involved if you want an opinion. Shockingly your mothers care needs have changed in seven years and your sister is telling you she is not coping. If she's mobile enough to be getting up all the time but not willing to have support to get washed/wear a falls bracelet to reduce the risks then she absolutely will fall again. If she's being offered an at home neb I'm guessing there is an element of shortness of breath (maybe COPD?) Which makes things even harder on your sister rn. Someone unwilling to engage in the inventions put in place to keep them safe makes things a lot harder on their carer.

My in laws lived below their elderly parents and we had to pick them up off the floor at least once a week. If the carers didn't show up it was me in there getting them sorted. One night she laid on the floor all night sodden because she got up after being put to bed, fell and she refused to wear a falls alarm. He was constantly incontinent but refused pads and we were all up there scrubbing the carpets daily. And of course it was the siblings who lived in America who had a massive fallout when we said enough was enough and they needed 24 hour nursing care.

This is tricky. Does your mum need. Care that your sister is unable to provide ? Was that agreement made when she was In Good health ?

Your mum needs legal advice she may be able to prove a beneficial interest in your sis house if she wants get money out - although it doesn’t sound like she does and it may then go on care fees anyway. Your sis needs legal advice whether care costs would attach to the granny flat or money for her extra bedroom it’s not definite the extra bedroom in particular wouldn’t be seen as deprivation of assets for care costs. If you think she’s being financially abused you can report to social services. But your mum will likely deny that and it will blow up family relations. If she has mental capacity that includes making bad choices like handing over control of her money and also refusing care. She’s only late 70’s FFS, not exactly ancient. Your sis can’t force her to go into a home or to accept help unless can prove your mum lacks capacity. Best interests decisions only apply if no capacity to make decision. There’s other tech eg something like an Alexa where can call if she has a fall or a family member can drop in via Alexa video or a ring camera etc. It doesn’t all have to be down to the family who live with her -you can support remotely with tech these days. I agree her health problems don’t seem anywhere near the threshold for going into a home and unlikely social services would fund one. You don’t go from needing a pendant and no carers to a care home place (even if you could find one).

I know what my mum wanted more than anything- for me and my siblings not to fight. And it's the hardest thing sometimes. Try to step back and look at the whole picture over time.

Not necessarily. My BIL has just been approved to move to a care home from an assessment unit, not totally with his full consent. He is unsafe at home, my DSis has just had surgery and cannot look after him forevermore, having been his carer increasingly for the last twenty years. He will make a contribution from his benefits and the state will fund the rest. They tried to send him home but each time it became clear that it is not in his best interests

What do you mean, they demanded these things? It sounds like people were being encouraged to take whatever they wish which is normal for possessions not specifically listed in the will. Do you think the fridge should have been left as a shrine or something?

My mum lived with us for the last 10 years of her life (died at 84). It can be a delight and a privilege and really useful, as it was with mum. None of us ever resented her presence or involvement, but she was careful not to interfere unreasonably though that didn't atop her frequently telling me I was wrong! We had a good relationship with her; dh wished often that she had actually been HIS mum and dd adored her.

It doesn't sound like your sis finds having your mum there is like that.

You each need to have a chat with your mum about what SHE wants, why she's refusing the help on offer - especially the nebuliser. Does she feel that it would just ge easier on everyone if she collapsed and never came round again or something awful like that? If so, who is making her feel like that?

I know that at 84, mum felt it was time for her, that she'd had enough of being old, so when she was dx with cancer she rushed off to the doc and got herself a DNR notice. Her cancer was inoperable by the time it was dx, but she'd hung back on purpose really as she wanted it over and done with. It was, in a few months. Left us broken hearted and in shock, but I could see her point. There comes a point where increasing disability just becomes so booooooring (approaching that point myself).

So you need to egt there and talk to your mum. It can't be impossible to talk to her on her own in her own place, or in hospital, without sis or horrid husband butting in. With a bit of advance organisation and a crumb of cunning....

If your mum needs to pay for care and the local authority do a financial assessment , they will look back to where her assets and property has gone and it will need to be declared. There is no limit to how long they can go back. They ask lots of questions on the form. I would make sure your sister is not able to lie on that form.

Why? She's spent seven years caring for her increasingly frail mother and we only have the op's word for the second bedroom - it might be that mum decided it was useless to have a second bedroom sitting empty for her when one of her grandchildren could be using it.

Why isn't the op more concerned about what is right for her mother given the history of falls and the impossibility of her sister dancing attendance 24/7.

I really think there's another side to this.

Sorry OP. It's so hard as your parents age. It's heart breaking and more than that...it takes a million phone calls.

I can't say anymore to you as I've been on the other side of this.

I asked your birth position before you gave a full reply (I know your intentions are good). I know I'm projecting my issues onto you but I'm guessing you are far from being the oldest.

Life is sometimes shit but it's no one's fault.

I suspect your sister is earning her extra bedroom with harder graft than you imagine.

Yep. I initially thought that as soon as the flat was finished, sis tried to get her in a home. But she's been responsible for her for a long time and it won't have been a walk in the park. And it certainly isn't now.

If mum refuses a home point blank, and also refuses carers and a alarm.(and medical support) sis is in an impossible situation.

Unless your siblings have pots of money to pay for a care home, there’s not a chance in hell that social services will fund this. They have no money. They will keep her at home with daily carers long, long after that becomes inadequate and a care home would be better. Genuinely - don’t worry about it. Not going to happen.

Maybe a two storey extension/one up one down was all that planning permission would allow?

There aren’t enough details here really.

Your sis may be sneaky, but your dm lives with her, this is no walk in the park. It’s a huge responsibility and a lot of work.
When your mother is in hospital do you travel to visit her, or is it down to your sister as she’s local?

Under the circumstances, unless you’re willing to move closer, I think it’s ok for your sister to have her views, seeing as she is the one who is most affected.