Siblings want to put mum in a home

Another way of looking at this, is to acknowledge that you have saved over £500k in care fees, with your Mum being at your sisters for the past 7 years.

I doubt your sister's extension put £500k extra value on the house, so I would say that you are all square really.

This sounds familiar, are you sure that your Mum is refusing to co-operate or is that what your sister is saying? If your sister had built a two bed extension like she said she would the carer could have the second room. Does your sister generally tell the truth or is she ruthless and manipulative?

@Tirednest completely disagree with you. The mother instigated moving in with the sister as needed supported accommodation but had preference for staying with family.

The Granny annex was built with the exception that second bedroom couldn’t be accommodated within and was instead put on the second storey. Likely a planning issue. I would suspect the unavailability of said room to OP has more to do with OP being uninvolved and distant from the family, rather than anything else.

It’s now several years later, the Mother could continue living there with outside support, but is refusing this. This is the reason that the home is being looked at. They aren’t trying to diddle the system, money was spent where and when it needed to be spent on care dictated by the mothers preference and needs at the time. Potentially she’d be able to go on until death in the sisters home but she isn’t willing to cooperate.

This is a needs issue. As a carer I can fully understand how unbearably difficult the situation can be when the person involved refuses help and puts you in this impossible situation where their needs aren’t met and they endanger themselves.

You were tricked into wearing the red shoes and now you have no choice but to dance yourself to death ☹️

OP I'm in your DSis' position. Multiple other siblings, some live hundreds of miles away some live on the doorstep. When DM is incontinent, I'm the one cleaning up. I'm the one who hasn't had a full, proper nights sleep in 10 years because even when they're asleep when they're a falls risk or have medical needs you're only ever half a sneeze away from being awake. I'm the one checking medications are right, prescriptions have been ordered, food and drink is in, clothes are washed, beds are made/changed, hair and nails cut, showered, teeth done, arranging the bloody endless medical appointments. I'm the one that can't leave the house for more than three hours at a time, and even that's only thanks to my DH being at home to keep an eye on DM. She's refusing sensible medical care. Why? She's refusing carers. Why? What did DSis say when asked about the granny flat/bedroom situation? What is she using it for? I'm using DM's bedroom as my office because I had to start working from home to make sure she was safe. You say you want to get involved; I'm sorry, it's too late. I say that because I've been there. DSis decided she wanted to help with DM. Took her out. Brilliant. Except she took her to places way beyond DM's capability think she was as sprightly as she was ten years ago. Needed a group of blokes to carry her wheelchair down the bloody stairs with DM in it, and back up again. No concept of what would have happened if they'd dropped her. If you genuinely want to be involved I suggest packing your bags and moving in for six-twelve months minimum to begin getting an idea of just how bloody hard it is. Then start criticising. Until then, if your DM has capacity she won't be going anywhere near a care home. If she doesn't, your sister will (rightly) be in a heavy position to sway the decision because it's her life that's been given up.

When I've spoken about shared lives I meant if it was a contractual arrangement with an independent party not family.

Was just trying to explain to OP how her Dsis may not (and we don't know exact financial details nor all Mums needs) have been to her mothers detriment

Are you doing this with your mother's knowledge and permission? Will she sign the lease for it? Are you planning on doing this for sheltered housing near you and taking on a caring role or where she lives and still expecting your dsis to take on a caring role?

Just for mums £90 per week AA I meant

I've read this - as a not uncommon situation. That a relative afar not doing daily support doesn't believe relative (who's been doing that support for years)and not fully understanding how disabled & level of needs parent has become or how it may be extremely difficult when parent expects relative to provide all their care 24/7 and refuses equipment or carers to assist.

When you get a social worker assess , they assess needs talk about realistic options , talk with client and it's an independent voice. I think that might help in this situation where relatives may have different perceptions of mums care needs. Ultimately if mum had no legal part ownership of their main carer (daughter)'a house, then her right to continue living there is limited to being 'with agreement of whose house it is', without anAST tenancy which you cannot get for living with a resident landlord.

As I said before - 7 years of support living in someone else's house is quite considerable and would be costed quite highly.

So for eg living in a shared lives (adult placement) house with meals drinks meds done and general supervision & taking out a bit, would be in region of £465- 565 a week plus three days a week if day care (so £200-300 pw) in our LA and long term and arrangement for rent (but mum paid for extension so you'd expect no rent) .

Now times that by 7 years x12 months x 565 and you can see how quickly she'd have burnt through her money as a self funder. £6,800 a year £48k for 7 years. That's before you include additional carers for personal care etc help and possibly 24/7 assistance with supervising mobility to and from toilet etc as and when her needs increased, which might have escalated at some point to nearer to residential placement or live in carer level - so between £750-£1250 per week. At live in carer level as a self funder mum could have spent £70k in a year alone on care. That your Dsis has done for free or just for £90 per week attendance allowance.

Until you have that independent needs assessment if would be difficult to say what mums needs are, I would think the hospital discharge teams have given advice. If they have said mums needs are at residential care level, given they look to alternatives to keep people home, then that's a bit of a heads up.

sorry just re-read
she either needs carers or a home

cant they pay for carers to come in?

You would benefit by talking to your sister and doing a referral to adult social care team for needs assessment first. As if she needs carers or can manage in a sheltered accomodation you'll want advice in case her needs are above that. You all need to be working together and all views being heard even if some are in disagreement. Our HA sheltered housing schemes won't offer a vacancy if someone's mobility or other needs are too high at that point; the might want to look at extra care schemes . It's what to ask for an assessment (which would be under the care act 2014 ) for recommendations and funding if required

Any progress on her accepting carers and the nebuliser?

Most people need carers.

Only a third require a care home

Anyway, the OP hasn’t posted for over a week, so I’m out.

The mother could, potentially, stay where she is, in the purpose built extra room, but she is refusing carers and a nebuliser.

as far as I understand it, sheltered accommodation would have someone coming by to check sometimes, this would be similar to where she is now, and wouldn’t solve the need for the nebuliser!

@SheilaFentiman could she not go into sheltered accommodation where it's her own space but with added protection. A care home is something completely different. I have volunteered in many throughout my life and whilst lovely places full of amazing and wonderful staff, the mother doesn't seem to warrant needing a care home just yet.

@scorcio5 where does it say that the sister has been caring for her mother for seven years? I'd suggest that maybe the sister reaches into her pocket and pays for sheltered accommodation rather than taking her money, making her house nicer and then sending her off to a state run care home.

@wonderingwanderings re the 'local' doubt op will ever come back, don't think she is, but she's also said she's estranged from the family so no contact for a while, also wants to solve the issue by the sis selling her home, and giving the original value of the mums house from 7 years ago to her, and she'll then build a granny annexe too..

Progressed beyond what people thought they would?
Most people get to the stage of needing care. And that can happen suddenly with older people.

If your mum won't accept carers or a lifeline alarm, then I don't know what else your sister can do? It sounds as though your mum's medical needs have progressed beyond what anyone thought they would and your mum won't accept help, so I am not sure they have any other options?

Are you local? Are you involved in her care in anyway? If your sister is the main carer and she's saying that your mum's needs are beyond what she can manage, then you need to listen to what she's saying. Caring for an elderly, sick relative (who refuses outside support) is a very hard and lonely job. Having a bit of extra value/extra bedroom added to your home does not make up for how much your whole life is taken over by caring for the person you love.

However if you really, really don't want your mum to go into residential care, maybe you should become her full time carer?

*Should have said not very compliant, stupid phone

Wtf??? Seriously, give your head a wobble love, have you ever cared for an elderly relative, as other posters have said it is not a walk in the park and is fcking hard graft both physically and mentally, and especially as OP stated her DM is being being very compliant with the medical advise, what's your advice smart arse??