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Elderly parents

Can I refuse Mum's discharge from Hospital

65 replies

LadyShmuck · 01/02/2023 13:01

I was going to NC but I'm so tired I can't work out how to, so if you know me, hi!

Background to this issue.
Mum is 71 with undiagnosed dementia which has deteriorated rapidly over the last 2 years and she is now doubly incontinent, unable to care for herself, cannot communicate in any meaningful way and needs 24/7 supervision. She lives with my dad who can't walk and has significant mobility issues. He cannot meet her care needs at this point in my opinion. Up to now they have refused to get carers, instead stumbling from one issue to the next with frequent propping up by me and my siblings.

Over the past 3 days she has had 2 falls (collapses? Can't be sure) and also it has become apparent that she hasn't taken her blood pressure medication and her blood pressure was at 250/118 on Monday night. We have ended up in A&E on all 3 nights, finally this morning a doctor decided to admit her and said that we should expect her to be in for a while for her to be assessed and get things in place so that she can return home safely or go into residential care if that was more appropriate. I left my mum in the Early Assessment Unit at 8am this morning.

Around 12 the hospital called to say they would sort an outpatients physio appointment and for their 'interface' team to assess her with a view to discharging her today. I said this didn't align with what the doctor this morning had said on admission and that I wouldn't support a discharge today on the grounds that she clearly can't be kept safe at home. The nurse I spoke to repeated their plan and given that the call woke me up after being asleep for an hour for the first time in 36 hours I'll admit I wasn't at my sharpest when I took the call.

What can I do here? What should I be asking for, I cannot allow her to go home today, my dad has finally admitted he can't cope and doesn't want her to come home as he can't care for her or keep her safe.

Any wisdom appreciated, I'm panicking at the thought of her coming home today and spending another night with her in A&E to go through all this again.

OP posts:
JussathoB · 01/02/2023 15:01

The ‘undiagnosed’ dementia needs to be diagnosed asap, this should help you get the care your mother needs. I’m amazed you have managed to cope this far, reading the info you have given about your mother’s difficulties.

JussathoB · 01/02/2023 14:58

Ask for her to be admitted to the geriatric or gerontology ward at the hospital for a full frailty and dementia assessment so that her needs can be identified and plans can be made.

JussathoB · 01/02/2023 14:55

in your situation I would absolutely refuse to accept discharge. Insist it is unsafe, nobody is able to care for her at home. Ask for an urgent referral to the hospital social worker. Repeat that the doctor said she needed proper assessment and that the likely outcome is a full care package or admission to nursing care.

larchforest · 01/02/2023 14:50

Put your foot down and say no, absolutely no way, and insist that the house is not safe for her to go home because there is nobody to care for her there. Tell them over and over again that your father is disabled and barely able to care for himself, let alone an incontinent wife with dementia.

If she has diagnosed dementia, then she does not have the capacity to decide whether or not she has carers coming into her home anyway.

ferociouslychristmas · 01/02/2023 14:49

Sorry it has come to this OP. You can re-iterate that you are unable to meet her care needs at home. Could anything have been done prior to prevent an acute admission? Refusing care? That's not a reason to be in an acute hospital bed unfortunately and people can't stay in an acute hospital until they accept care, is there a community or outlying hospital she could go to for assessment?

@hashbrownsandwich everyone in hospital has a falls assessment, most over 65's are at risk of falls. Simply being a falls risk isn't a reason to stay in hospital, if that was the case most elderly people would be watched day and night.
Continence assessments are done by the ward nurses or community nurses, they often rely on family to help with this as you need to keep a full fluid chart and document when wet/soiled. The continence specialists do not routinely see patients.

rwalker · 01/02/2023 14:47

It seem as though they’ve bypassed the discharge team

every time my dad was in it was carer and home assessment to make sure everything was ok and they had any equipment they needed

yes refuse

hashbrownsandwich · 01/02/2023 14:43

To add, she should also see the continence team and be assessed.

hashbrownsandwich · 01/02/2023 14:42

Absolutely, get in touch with the ward she is on and explain that your father cannot meet her care needs. They should also have done a falls and frailty assessment.
Can your parents afford respite care while longer term plans are made?

saraclara · 01/02/2023 14:23

In similar circumstances (though she lived alone) Adult Services arranged a 'respite' stay in a care home for my MIL. So give social services a call.

Topseyt123 · 01/02/2023 14:19

I should add, also drum into them in whatever way you can that not only is there no family support available, your father is simply unable to provide any care at all because of his own health issues. Be absolutely blunt there and say that an unsafe discharge will not be accepted.

Insist that any discharge is to an assessment unit that can assess her ongoing needs properly. Accept nothing less.

Unfortunately, these days the only way to get anything you need out of the system you have to tip it into crisis.

My elderly Dad was sent home as an unsafe (and ultimately failed) discharge a couple of years ago. It was traumatic both for him and for everyone else and didn't end well. I will never forget it. Don't allow yourself to be shoved down that route. It is in nobody's best interests.

NatWestPigFamily · 01/02/2023 14:07

Ask to speak to the vulnerable adult team and explain the situation. Also ask about a package of care and an occupational therapist (OT) home review particularly as your mum is a known falls risk. They may provide some aids for her to use at home. If no one is listening to your concerns, contact PALS.

I would also contact your parents GP with your concerns as it sounds like you need all the support you can get. It may be that carers can be arranged to go in to help both your parents.

Topseyt123 · 01/02/2023 14:07

You can absolutely refuse an unsafe discharge.

Insist that her needs cannot be met at home as things stand any longer. State that you are not available to manage her care (leave them no chink of light there at all). She needs a full assessment of her needs before even considering a discharge.

Occupational Therapy and Adult Social Services should make a full assessment of your parents and their needs (particularly your mother, but also your father). It should be done before she leaves hospital.

Fairysilver · 01/02/2023 13:58

Assuming that's the next step are you already looking into residential care homes?
There should be a care plan in place before discharge. Either carers going into the home or a temporary residential home until permanent arrangements are made.
As PP said though, unsafe discharge. You might try the hospital social worker who would normally be involved in a care plan.

countrygirl99 · 01/02/2023 13:56

Make sure they are aware that your dad is unable to care due to his own needs and there is zero family backup available. Be blunt, very blunt. Follow up with an email to the discharge team. Don't give any reasons for not being available just say it isn't possible.

MysterOfwomanY · 01/02/2023 13:52

From my own experience this could just be crossed wires. Hospital discharge Comms often seem DREADFUL.
But yes this is (magic phrase) "unsafe discharge".
Don't suppose you have the names of the doctor, nurse, or ward she's on?

Anyway, try the ward and then, if you get no sense out of them, PALS. Bottom line, anyway, what are they going to do in the face of your Dad not opening the door to them?!