Elderly mother - is this old age or pure nastiness?

Op its hard. We took a huge step back. 80s. All about ME. I was very tired from it all. I told her its once week now with us working/homes to run. My dad spoilt her so that doesnt help. We got told a duty to elders but respect runs 2 ways!!

OP I have been in exactly the same situation as you. It's horrible and I feel for you.

The needs of an elderly person of this age are very often a bottomless pit and they will keep on growing. It is a very rare person indeed who can manage this care alone and if the elderly person is nasty on top of this, it becomes and emotional and psychological nightmare on top of the practical, time consuming burden of it.

You must, really must insist on paid help or push SS to provide carers. SS homecare is free if she can't afford it. Then, if you feel you must stay involved then go there to sit down and talk to her, watch TV etc. I know you might not feel like it,
as she isn't very likeable at the moment but honestly it will make a huge difference to you both. I spent years running around after my DM only to be rewarded by catty remarks, and never gratitude. Once I really cut down on the errands and spent time talking to her, things really improved. Another poster has expressed it better.

@PurpleSky300

*I know you say that you see her a lot - but it seems mostly very errand-focused and not, maybe, 'quality' time? Maybe just try a different approach. Can you sit and have a cup of tea with her, just talk about social things? Remind her of good times from the past and get her talking?

I would suggest just dropping the errands for a bit and trying more personal time. Can you take her out anywhere? Or even just watch some TV programmes with her or something?*

Imagine you are 95, getting more frail, death used to be viewed through a long tunnel... now its the next station...

don't go out, friends all old or dead, lonely, no one to talk to until someone visits, need help and your family think you are a burden. I think I'd be bitchin too.

It is hard, you need to live your own life setting your boundaries. Decide how much you can give and try to get carers set up to cover the rest. MIL has (private) carers in 4 times a day, to get her up and washed/ dressed/medication, to spend some time chatting over a cuppa and a sandwich at lunch, to make sure she's fed/medicated at tea time and lastly to chat and get her to bed. Her demands on family have become much fewer since she has people to talk with regularly.

The carers are not there because she needs help, but because we do.

It's very difficult when you've always helped out but this is what we call carer responsibility creep

You are doing more and more as her needs are increasing. 90+ is an incredible age and she'll be feeling frustrated anxious and frightened perhaps at times. You don't have to be there 24/7 as if she needs that then the alternative is a residential care home or move into extra care scheme or other options .

is this simply her age magnifying how she’s always been?

Yes it's both. She's lonely and needs more care help but also is saying more extreme comments than she used to , a bit to do with her expectations that all your lives will resolve around her

Set your boundaries of what you can do, ignore (tune out) or say "don't be unkind or I will leave" if you think she is in control of the negative things she says

If she's not coping on days you don't want to be / can't be there then suggest she lets you refer her to local adult care for an assessment as you can't fit in more than you currently do and are exhausted and need to step back a bit. Don't (believe her when she says..) let her tell you to give up your life for her .

My sister and I made sure we didn't get the into the timetable our mother wanted, once a week each, never on the same day or at the same time each week.
She had carers, but didn't want them to do anything for her, she wanted us at her beck and call. We repeated time and again that she should ask the carers or it wouldn't get done.
We had to do this as we were both being run ragged by her demands. I offered online shopping, but she preferred to phone to ask us to get stuff, obviously we didn't mind for something out of the ordinary, and would take essentials if we were visiting. But it became demand after demand, which is why we took a step back.

My DF was like this, my DM got the brunt of his behaviour. But he did have the start of dementia, although he died from cancer before dementia took too much of a hold.

I remember reading Fiona Phillips’ book about her parents’ and coping with dementia. Her DM had dementia and when her DM died from it her DF seemed really distant and uncaring, it then turned out he too had dementia, but different symptoms to her DM so they hadn’t picked it up before then.

You are doing a lot for your mother.
At what personal cost I wonder?
How would YOUR life be different if you visited her once a week for 1 or 2 hours?

My dad was like this before he died. No notion that my siblings or I had any purpose or priority in life other than to serve him while he bitched about us and bullied us. I continued to be dutiful but minimised contact and suggest you do the same. Learn the Grey Rock technique. It saved my sanity. Keep visits brisk and functional. Drop off food and say you have to run, you have a busy day. Learn to walk away in the middle of a spiteful monologue about how awful you are. Don't feel you need to wait until she has finished speaking.

Whenever she starts saying something that digs too deep for you - however apparently trivial (flights canc elled etc) just say cheerfully, 'Got to go now. Bye mum!' And off you go. It gets easier with practise.

You are not her slave. You don't have to spend half your life dreading your visits to her and the other half recovering from them. Keep them short, helpful, breezy and under your control.

If she questions you, be honest. I found it immensely powerful to say gently, 'Well you showed no interest in me or your grandchildren so I don't feel hugely beholden to you. But I am a nice person, so I make sure you are safe and clean and warm and fed. Your food is here. Your clean clothes are there. Bye for now!' That sort of statement helps reinforce to her but also to you, that you are a nice person and you do do a lot for her. And it stops everything festering.

Maybe you're right. I find that hard to believe in my case as it's only directed to people that 'don't matter' ie me, her cleaner, her gardener and various other dogsbody!! To the outside world she is lovely and if one more person tells me how lovely she is I shall scream.

You need to start putting you first op.
4 times a week md all that help must be taking it's toll on your life.

Your life is as important as hers you know!

My word this resonates. My mother's filter has gone and she seems to be saying all the things I always thought she thought but had been told I am oversensitive about. I still have children at home and this weekend have decided that I need to let go. I have don3 so massively before but its hard when they are ancient.

It’s easier to deal with if it’s old age. Your mother being nasty to you is difficult, your mother being nasty as a result of old age is much more impersonal.

She’ll be having a really rubbish time, unable to do many things she’d like to do. But that’s no reason to mess up your life too. You can’t create happiness for anyone else.

What was she like before? My mother has always been like this - I don't think she has ever said anything positive about me, literally told me I looked fat on my wedding day. I have no intention of looking after her when she is old - why are you doing so much?

Purple "Maybe older people make these (unkind) comments about weight, hair, glasses etc - because they don't really know what else to say? It's basically just small talk / talking to fill space but comes across very abrupt."

for me, the reason is irrelevant. It's intolerable. My auntie is doing it; I've told her to stop if she wants to continue chatting.

my mum does tolerate it but doesn't really listen.

but there is plenty of small talk that doesn't involve slagging people off. I just told my auntie, if that's all you can say, I can't converse with you.

OP I'd tell your mother that.

I think that's a really good approach.

Maybe some of this behaviour is about loss of connection as well. Maybe older people make these (unkind) comments about weight, hair, glasses etc - because they don't really know what else to say? It's basically just small talk / talking to fill space but comes across very abrupt.

I have relatives far younger who will say bitter things like "X only bothers with me for the Will" or "Y is hoping to inherit..." ... it's untrue but it's almost like they are verbalising their fears?

Has she been see by a GP recently? I wonder if she has dementia. It's not just memory problems. Lack of empathy and only seeing own wants and needs is very common.

My dad is like this. Always has been selfish, but it's off the scale now. He is 90.

My mum died 3 weeks ago and he acts as if he couldn't care less. Everything is about him and his demands over minor things. If he acts like this at the funeral I may have to disown him.

Sorry, that wasn't very helpful op, but you're not alone.

Interesting post - my mum is late 80s and is wonderful in many ways, but I do also see signs of this change in personality in which her filter has gone and perspectives which were always there have now become magnified for example very fattist comments about everyone who is not pin thin and nasty comments about people's houses. This can be hortgil especially for the younger generation. My take is that for older people who were once very active, independent and strong and whose persona was based on this find it very hard to adjust to the nasty business of getting old. Also think that many old people are basically pretty depressed and use up a lot if energy trying to hide it / hide their increasing physical and mental failings in one way or another he solution? Who knows - my approach is to tune out and not react to the nasty comments and steer the conversation towards "the old days" and to never ever to mention that they might be getting older and more frail!

Maybe she's lonely, maybe a bit resentful because she feels like other people are having fun and she isn't - try to have sympathy because it can't be easy dealing with the frailty that comes with being 90+.

I know you say that you see her a lot - but it seems mostly very errand-focused and not, maybe, 'quality' time? Maybe just try a different approach. Can you sit and have a cup of tea with her, just talk about social things? Remind her of good times from the past and get her talking?

I would suggest just dropping the errands for a bit and trying more personal time. Can you take her out anywhere? Or even just watch some TV programmes with her or something?

Sounds like it's a bit of both. I think for your own mental well being you should insist on a day centre but I think to do this you might have to make yourself completely unavailable or unable to provide care.

It's quite likely she's very depressed, it's pretty normal for people in their 90s to almost seem like they're giving up. She's probably frustrated as - and mean this in the kindest possible sense - she's nearing the end of her life and she knows it, so expresses this through bitterness, resentment and sheer nastiness. Can you explain to her that her behaviour is really taking it's toll on you? And make it clear you're not willing to be spoken to like that anymore and if it doesn't stop then your visits will have to stop. You need to be able to live your own life.

My mum has this with her aunt. The nastiness is unreal and what OP said about gossiping and salivating over misfortune sounds exactly what we're dealing with currently. Nothing my mum does is good enough, she slags her off both to her face and behind her back, refuses to pay for anything and her most repeated sentence these days is 'well where does that leave me?' if my mum dares to make any plans. She's expected to wait on her every need and suddenly became bed bound when expected to start doing things for herself. She's now been bed bound for at least 2 years and gets progressively nastier the longer she lives. She has carers in now as my mum can't do it all, but spends had her day on the phone complaining about/to the company.

OP, no real tips but you're certainly not alone in dealing with this behaviour.

I wouldn't be visiting more that once a week. If you weren't close when she didn't need you I don't see why you should be now. I'd also leave as soon as she says anything bitchy, making it clear that is the reason I'm leaving.

Ime she wants her previous fitter, independent life back and as she can't have that expects the world to pander to her to make up for that.
You can't fix this so imv it's pointless being a martyr.
Decide what you can face doing and stick to that and leave others to put in their own boundaries - it's not up to you.

Wait until shes atop the stair... give her a wee push.

I jest, mainly. I have a similar relative and find being kind yet firm and challenging her on her behaviour is more helpful. Whilst imagining the above in more challenging moments ha.