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Elderly parents
Original poster

I want to throw in the towel please help

109 replies

LeeMucklowesCurtains · 28/04/2022 14:06

I’m sorry if this is disjointed and makes no sense.

My dad has been in a care home since December last year, vascular dementia.

The place he’s in is £1200 a week. He’s got a flat to sell that’s on the market for 125 and about 40k in savings.

He moved to the home hes in a couple of months ago, he was in another home at first that the local authority put him into after the hospital admission where he was finally diagnosed with dementia after I had to put up a fight (he was quite far gone, but despite that, medical professionals kept telling me he was fine).

That home was awful, they were shut for a month due to covid so we couldn’t see him. When we did, he had lost stones in weight, he was covered in sores and bruises.

We found somewhere better and he’s gained all the weight back there and is doing better.

We were trying to set up deferred payment, I don’t know what happened but things have been lost in translation with the finance side and they called sent me an invoice for the 12,000 he owes since being there and said they would start legal proceedings if it wasn’t paid.

I managed to sort that out and we are speaking to them again trying to set up deferred payment (I took my eye off the ball as I’ve been going through cancer investigations) but I’m so confused going forward.

Going with the care home as it’s interest free for deferred payment rather than the council.

His flat has been on the market 6 weeks, I’m terrified something will go wrong and it won’t sell. The market here is awful.

When I was speaking to them today I was asking about worst case - he doesn’t get the money etc.

Apparently I signed a form as guarantor. I can’t remember what I signed, it was the day before a scan I was having and I was terrified and my dad was sat in the room screaming and hallucinating and I just wanted him moved in there and out of the place that had neglected him.

My husband has hit the roof over that, what if something went wrong and we lost the little we do have because of my dad.

We’ve only just managed to buy our first house in our 40s with a massive struggle, we don’t have a pot to piss in to be frank, what if they came after me for money?

I’m so stressed that honestly, at this moment i just want to revoke the power of attorney, call adult social care and make it their problem. They can move him where they like, sell his house and keep all his money, I can’t do this anymore.

I don’t know what I am doing, I am so sick and it’s all just me, no one will explain anything or help me. Everyone just wants things from me all the time.9

I’ve not even done anything about stuff like his council tax, I don’t know how to sign his shit old car over to me. I need to keep it as it’s all he talks about all the tim and if he didn’t see it on my drive once a week when he comes here, it would cause him so much distress.

He only completed on his flat in December. The sale of his last place and buying this flat near me took almost a year because of the other people in the chain messing around - he was showing no signs of dementia when he was first moving here, he deteriorated so fast. so land registry isn’t even in his name yet which is what caused the problems with the care home and the deferred payment - they didn’t believe it was his to sell. I’ve sent them relevant paperwork.

Everything is such a huge mess and I don’t know what to do. I can’t cope with it all and seeing him like this.

I’ve spoken to three solicitors who have all told me different things too.

And age U.K. which is who everyone recommends to talk to we’re all but useless and told me something different to everyone else too.

OP posts:
AnotherTroyforHertoBurn · 28/04/2022 15:29

@newbiename

I accept that, but my Dh would not be throwing the head, he would be quietly supportive and privately annoyed.

Guess we are all different.

quicklybeingdrivenmad · 28/04/2022 15:27

Firstly you are not thick I went through this with my parents thought I was losing my mind

1)Apply for Attendance allowance his NI number will be on his bank statement next to his state pension, you have POA so just go into the bank and get a statement.

2)Ring and get Attendence allowance forms sent out, now so when awarded it is backdated to when you requested the forms.( you get six weeks to fill them in from memory)

  1. Speak to Adult social services and request a continuing healthcare funding assessment (easy to get assessment but hard to get but not impossible to get the funding)

  2. Car do an online transfer via DVLA bear in mind if he has dementia and lost his licence he would not be able to insure it, so could be another headache for you, other option sorn it and stick it up the drive unisured if its only worth £700

  3. Council tax, you can get a refund from the date he was diagnosed.

  4. I fought the local authority and got a contract through them which capped the fees at the council rate over £400 per week cheaper than private (even though mum was self funding, this could be even more possible if you defer fees through the council.

Wish you and your family all the best and if you need any help/ advice just message me as I have been through this with both mum and dad xx

Wilma55 · 28/04/2022 15:03

His NI number should be on his bank statement where his state pension is paid in.

BemoreDerek · 28/04/2022 15:03

I really feel like you need some real
life support OP, someone to sit with you and go through everything and help you figure out what needs to be done next. Not because you're 'a bit thick' (you're clearly not from your posts) but because you're utterly overwhelmed, as most of us would be in your shoes. I just feel like someone with a clear head and no emotional involvement needs to take some of this off your shoulders, is there anyone in your life who could do that? It's something I would gladly do if you were local to me, not that I'm an expert in any way but it must feel like trying to walk through quicksand when you have all the emotional stuff to deal with too plus your own health worries, if I could help someone in that situation I definitely would.

BlanketsBanned · 28/04/2022 15:02

Has he had a capacity assessment, it may be too late for poa now if he has lost capacity, have you spoken to the opg about the delay and the outstanding bill. If it wont be granted you need to apply for urgent deputyship and ask the court of protection to make the payment..

RenegadeMrs · 28/04/2022 15:00

If the bank are messing your around for 2 months, make a complaint. The complaints department often will get things done if nothing is happening, or at the least should be able to talk you thorough what should be happening and the timescales.

Sounds horribly stressful, but it also sounds like it can be sorted out, all be it it will be a complete pain in the bum to do.

newbiename · 28/04/2022 14:58

AnotherTroyforHertoBurn · 28/04/2022 14:44

You are overwhelmed and your husband is a prince amongst men.

That would be a deal breaker for me.

I don't suppose many people could afford to be a guarantor for £1200 a week.

SiobhanSharpe · 28/04/2022 14:58

I'm so sorry you're going through all this, I know well how difficult and frustrating it is dealing with SS, local councils and care homes on behalf of elderly relatives.
A few points stood out -- can you ask to see the form they say you signed agreeing to be a guarantor?
I think you should have been given a copy of it at the time.
My late DM was in this position re residential care and we opted for deferred payments to the care home through the local council. They were completely professional and above board, everything operated very smoothly and I had every confidence in them.

This was in stark contract to the Care Home owner manager who constantly tried to bill me for 'extras' and 'top-up' fees despite the fact that this was not allowed at that time. I just referred him to the council as it was their responsibility and they dealt with him, I'm happy to say. (Sent him away with a flea in his ear)
So the council paid her monthly fees, with copies to me, until her house was sold and we paid the debt she had accrued with them.
if there is any chance of your council taking over the fees for now it would be one worry less for you at the moment, even though it will of course have to be paid back out of his house proceeds, or from his estate.

Original poster
LeeMucklowesCurtains · 28/04/2022 14:58

With regard to his car - it’s an ongoing battle.

If I say something is wrong with it or it’s been stolen, all hell will break lose.

He already shouts and screams at me to take him to a car showroom, he’s got 40k he wants
go buy a new one. There is no reasoning with him.

Its only worth £700, drop in the ocean to
the fees.

OP posts:
Acheyknees · 28/04/2022 14:58

First of all he has 40k of savings so use this money to fund the care home. You have POA so you can pay the bill. This should give you some breathing space.
Secondly, notify all the utility companies and council regarding your father's flat. Again you have POA so you can do this.
Then I would go through your father's paperwork to find his national insurance number. If you can't find itspeal to the DWP as presumably he is getting his pension. Again you have POA

CrotchetyQuaver · 28/04/2022 14:55

You need to arrange an appointment at his bank and set up the POA so you can start paying his fees out of his own money. Once you've done that, use some of his money to pay for a solicitor to sort out why his property's not registered in his name at Land Registry (same firm as did the conveyancing probably best).
Re the house, I'm going through the same currently with my late parents, take what you want and get a house clearance company in to deal with the rest.

BlanketsBanned · 28/04/2022 14:54

His ni number may be on the poa forms if you have a cooy and can also be found theough his g.p which the carehome should know.

Original poster
LeeMucklowesCurtains · 28/04/2022 14:53

BlanketsBanned · 28/04/2022 14:50

As you have financial poa can you access his savings to pay the outstanding bill. You need proof of the outstanding amount, his contract, any contribution he is entitled to like fnc, pension, attendance allowance.

I can’t do anything at the moment.

Another snag is, I applied for POA for his bank-
tbey have messed me around for
two months now. Still not sorted, bank account frozen. No one will speak to me. Just an email address. They keep saying it’s being processed.

OP posts:
Original poster
LeeMucklowesCurtains · 28/04/2022 14:51

AnotherTroyforHertoBurn · 28/04/2022 14:44

You are overwhelmed and your husband is a prince amongst men.

That would be a deal breaker for me.

No, I understand dh entirely.

Other way round, I’d be fuming.

We only managed to finally buy a house after years of damp ridden rentals because he spent 5 years working over time, 13 hours a day, 6 days a week. And then he almost lost his job becuase
of all my dads problems last year, my dad set fire to the kitchen in our final rental which almost jeopardised us finally buying this house, he was putting our children at risk of harm.

If that was my FIL, i’d feel the same.

OP posts:
BlanketsBanned · 28/04/2022 14:50

As you have financial poa can you access his savings to pay the outstanding bill. You need proof of the outstanding amount, his contract, any contribution he is entitled to like fnc, pension, attendance allowance.

newbiename · 28/04/2022 14:49

Have you got POA? Can you pay the fees out of his savings for now until the flat sells ?

Original poster
LeeMucklowesCurtains · 28/04/2022 14:48

LollyLol · 28/04/2022 14:36

You make perfect sense, and you post oozes stress and anxiety. I'm not surprised you feel overwhelmed.

It sounds like the Finance side of the Carehome probably has a chugging admin process spewing out payment reminders which doesnt take account of your deferred payment in the pipeline. That's not surprising. I wouldnt be surprised if they ask again in a few months. See if they can put a note on your account, but if they can't just accept: rubbish idiot system, NOT likely to go legal on you. ( I've had to tell TV Licensing three times that my mum is dead - despite using the "Tell us Once" service!).

Regarding being Guarantor, I would arrange to speak to the Carehome director and explain you did not appreciate the significance of that document and would not have signed it if you had fully appreciated its significance. Ask what's required to remove your name as Guarantor. Maybe they want a lump sum in advance or something g - so when you sell the house you could organise that, and then you can tell your DH you've got a plan to exit the Guarantee arrangement.

I'm currently in a not dissimilar position with my late mum's estate being bogged down in tasks that make no sense, forms that are unnecessarily complicated and emotionally wanting to avoid even thinking about it, and feeling really alone. I broke down a month ago because, 6 months on, the mountain just seems bigger than ever and I didnt feel like I had any support. I got some help, even just a little bit of help made me think I had someone interested in my own wellbeing.

Make a list of all the things you think you need to do. Pick one item on the list to do each day during your lunch hour. And make a folder with all your notes and documents in, putting your list at the front of the file. Whenever you have a phone call or meeting, add the details to your notes.

You will feel a lot more in control and probably the jobs won't seem so daunting.

No garentor, no care home place. I asked. He would have to move out with immediate effect. There is no one else.

No, they called me and said they would be starting legal proceedings. So it wasn’t just a generated letter.

OP posts:
AnotherTroyforHertoBurn · 28/04/2022 14:44

You are overwhelmed and your husband is a prince amongst men.

That would be a deal breaker for me.

Original poster
LeeMucklowesCurtains · 28/04/2022 14:44

LollyLol · 28/04/2022 14:38

Ps if you have any good ideas how to clear a house full of personal effects of my entire family over many generations (mum was the last of my family), I'd love to have some tips! I keep getting stuck in box after box of memorabilia. Taking forever!

He had burned it all.

Only things left were clothes and boxes of old, hoarded cables.

OP posts:
DPotter · 28/04/2022 14:44

You're not thick. This is a totally overwhelming situation - your Dad's ill. Care home finance is a minefield.

Here's the .gov website link for finding a lost NI number.

I like lollylol's ideaor removing yourself as guarantor if at all possible

Original poster
LeeMucklowesCurtains · 28/04/2022 14:43

Honestly, everything I touch turns to shit in this situation.

I just want to run away from it.

We should have just sold his flat and not bought the new one. Then this wouldn’t be happening.

But at the time, no one would believe he had dementia. Everyone was telling me he was fine when he was hallucinating everyday, speaking to my dead mother like she was in the room, not knowing who he was or where he was, what year it was.

He had been staying with me for two months and it was getting harder to keep my young children safe. My husband was going to move out with them to his parents house, that’s how bad it was and I was desperate not to be apart from my baby. The the situation was intolerable and my dad wouldn’t have willingly gone to a home. But by the time the flat completed, he had deteriorated so much he needed 24 hour care.

My husband has put up with so much and he’s done so much, he almost lost his job last year having to go up and down 6 hour round trip to my dad when people called us to say he was screaming in the street, he tied to get him help but no one would listen to us and all HCP said he was completely fine.

He’s so angry that I apparently signed a garentour form without realising.

OP posts:
LollyLol · 28/04/2022 14:38

Ps if you have any good ideas how to clear a house full of personal effects of my entire family over many generations (mum was the last of my family), I'd love to have some tips! I keep getting stuck in box after box of memorabilia. Taking forever!

DPotter · 28/04/2022 14:37

This type of situation is stressful, without the added cancer scare as well. Placing a relative in a care home ranks as one of the most stressful things along death of a loved one, divorce or moving house. So take a breath. Draw up a list of things you need to do, eg

  1. So your Dad's flat is on the market - that's good. Give it another 2 weeks and if there's no interest - ask your agent for their advice and maybe move to another agent.
  2. sort out the council tax. You can probably do this by phone or thru the council's website
  3. ask the care home for a copy of all the paper work. Maybe you didn't sign as guarantor....?
  4. is your DF receiving attendance allowance and mobility allowance ? If not claim - will help towards the care home fees.
  5. the car - think you're going to sell it and put the money towards the care home fees. I know is not ideal but i think a small white lie to your Dad is in order, I know i know, but there is only so much you can do. Tell him it's in the garage for repair / got stolen.
  6. ask ss for an assessment of your Dad. However if he has assets over £23k they will not contribute at all, but it's worth asking for the assessment as he may qualify for NHS nursing care benefit due to the severity of his condition and again it's worth it for the fees. This one's not means tested, it depend purely on the person's health condition. So my mum gets the max, as she can't feed herself, wanders at night, doubly incontinent, - well you get the picture.
  7. Honestly I'd go with the local authority for deferred payment even if they are charging interest. look at the interest as a service charge for doing all the admin.
I'm sorry you found Aged UK useless, we found them very helpful. there's a number on their national website which offers personal advice for financing care homes - I'm tempted to say I would accept the word of Aged UK over that of any solicitor in regard to anything to do with paying for care homes, as it's their full time day job.

Don't beat yourself up over this - it's a stressful time and you have health worries too

gamerchick · 28/04/2022 14:37

I might be missing something but if he's got 40k in savings, can't that be used?

drivinmecrazy · 28/04/2022 14:36

You're not 'a bit thick' you're overwhelmed Flowers

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