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Elderly parents
Original poster

I want to throw in the towel please help

109 replies

LeeMucklowesCurtains · 28/04/2022 14:06

I’m sorry if this is disjointed and makes no sense.

My dad has been in a care home since December last year, vascular dementia.

The place he’s in is £1200 a week. He’s got a flat to sell that’s on the market for 125 and about 40k in savings.

He moved to the home hes in a couple of months ago, he was in another home at first that the local authority put him into after the hospital admission where he was finally diagnosed with dementia after I had to put up a fight (he was quite far gone, but despite that, medical professionals kept telling me he was fine).

That home was awful, they were shut for a month due to covid so we couldn’t see him. When we did, he had lost stones in weight, he was covered in sores and bruises.

We found somewhere better and he’s gained all the weight back there and is doing better.

We were trying to set up deferred payment, I don’t know what happened but things have been lost in translation with the finance side and they called sent me an invoice for the 12,000 he owes since being there and said they would start legal proceedings if it wasn’t paid.

I managed to sort that out and we are speaking to them again trying to set up deferred payment (I took my eye off the ball as I’ve been going through cancer investigations) but I’m so confused going forward.

Going with the care home as it’s interest free for deferred payment rather than the council.

His flat has been on the market 6 weeks, I’m terrified something will go wrong and it won’t sell. The market here is awful.

When I was speaking to them today I was asking about worst case - he doesn’t get the money etc.

Apparently I signed a form as guarantor. I can’t remember what I signed, it was the day before a scan I was having and I was terrified and my dad was sat in the room screaming and hallucinating and I just wanted him moved in there and out of the place that had neglected him.

My husband has hit the roof over that, what if something went wrong and we lost the little we do have because of my dad.

We’ve only just managed to buy our first house in our 40s with a massive struggle, we don’t have a pot to piss in to be frank, what if they came after me for money?

I’m so stressed that honestly, at this moment i just want to revoke the power of attorney, call adult social care and make it their problem. They can move him where they like, sell his house and keep all his money, I can’t do this anymore.

I don’t know what I am doing, I am so sick and it’s all just me, no one will explain anything or help me. Everyone just wants things from me all the time.9

I’ve not even done anything about stuff like his council tax, I don’t know how to sign his shit old car over to me. I need to keep it as it’s all he talks about all the tim and if he didn’t see it on my drive once a week when he comes here, it would cause him so much distress.

He only completed on his flat in December. The sale of his last place and buying this flat near me took almost a year because of the other people in the chain messing around - he was showing no signs of dementia when he was first moving here, he deteriorated so fast. so land registry isn’t even in his name yet which is what caused the problems with the care home and the deferred payment - they didn’t believe it was his to sell. I’ve sent them relevant paperwork.

Everything is such a huge mess and I don’t know what to do. I can’t cope with it all and seeing him like this.

I’ve spoken to three solicitors who have all told me different things too.

And age U.K. which is who everyone recommends to talk to we’re all but useless and told me something different to everyone else too.

OP posts:
Original poster
LeeMucklowesCurtains · 28/04/2022 17:02

Oblomov22 · 28/04/2022 16:58

Can you get yourself removed as guarantor. And get him moved to a cheaper care home?

All the care homes here seem to be 1,200 a week.

The one he was put in by the council, it was dire, mostly funded people but if he wanted to stay there self funding it was still 1,200.

If I move him again I think it would deteriorate him further. He thinks he’s in prison - genuinely. This home are great.

Its just the finance people, based elsewhere.

OP posts:
Original poster
LeeMucklowesCurtains · 28/04/2022 17:00

GenerallyGreenerGrass · 28/04/2022 16:49

OP have you got your POA certificate back from Office of the Public Guardian?
If you have, make an appointment with a branch of your Dad 's bank and take the POA paperwork in with you, they should sort it out for you right away.
Sorn your Dad's car and leave it on your drive so he can see it when he visits, try to ignore him going on about buying a new one, just say something like, "we'll have to look into that", to pacify him.
I'm sure his flat will sell soon but ask the Estate Agent why they think it isn't selling very quickly, you might need to drop the price.
Is the Financial Office in the care home? You need to physically go in and explain to them about the situation, that you are waiting for his bank to release his money and his flat to sell but they will be paid immediately that happens. If the Office isn't in the home, speak to the Manager and they should be able to help.
They just need to know that you will be paying them as soon as you're able to.

I have the POA paperwork.

I went to HSBC with it. They don’t deal with it in branch. We had to send all documents to an email address. They are dealing with it, infuriatingly slowly.

Flat isn’t selling as quite frankly, we live in a shithole. No one really moves into the area and locals are priced out. My dads flat is lovely, 5 years old, show home decorated. But it was on the market for 10 months before he took it as there are not many takers here. There are two identical flats in the block that have been on the market, both with different agents for 6 months.

If i’d known things would have turned out like this, he would never have bought it.

OP posts:
Oblomov22 · 28/04/2022 16:58

Can you get yourself removed as guarantor. And get him moved to a cheaper care home?

PrawnMeringue · 28/04/2022 16:55

I have no practical advice OP but I just wanted to say how sorry I am that you're going through this. You and your husband sound amazing.

impossible · 28/04/2022 16:51

Lots of good advice here but just wanted to add that you are definitely not stupid - you are buckling under the weight of your own life, personal and financial concerns and your DF's best interests. Throw in financial insecurity and anyone would be overwhelmed.

I suggest you spend your DF's savings on the current bills - £40k will cover him for over 30 weeks and buy you time to breathe. In the end what you can do for DF will be limited by circumstances beyond your control so be kind to yourself. You are doing your best. If you have to move him out of the current home in order to remove yourself as guarantor so be it. It might be a good idea to look for alternatives now in case that should happen.

So sorry you are going though this. Its sounds like a nightmare.

GenerallyGreenerGrass · 28/04/2022 16:49

OP have you got your POA certificate back from Office of the Public Guardian?
If you have, make an appointment with a branch of your Dad 's bank and take the POA paperwork in with you, they should sort it out for you right away.
Sorn your Dad's car and leave it on your drive so he can see it when he visits, try to ignore him going on about buying a new one, just say something like, "we'll have to look into that", to pacify him.
I'm sure his flat will sell soon but ask the Estate Agent why they think it isn't selling very quickly, you might need to drop the price.
Is the Financial Office in the care home? You need to physically go in and explain to them about the situation, that you are waiting for his bank to release his money and his flat to sell but they will be paid immediately that happens. If the Office isn't in the home, speak to the Manager and they should be able to help.
They just need to know that you will be paying them as soon as you're able to.

stayathomegardener · 28/04/2022 16:44

Rereading I see you are going with the homes deferred payment service, can the social worker help you with that?

I also think you should both stop visiting for a while as firstly it might allow your Dad to settle easier and secondly it sounds like you and DH need a break and some headspace to focus on the practicalities. Any good care home would support you in this with regular updates for reassurance.

Put your own life jacket on first.

DPotter · 28/04/2022 16:44

My Mum's care home is £1200 a week - not an unusual amount where she is.

I agree with Blankets - it's not up to you or your DH to manage his behaviour. They should be requesting specialist help if they can't manage him. Honestly I would let the care home know that as of next week you will be calling in for 30 mins 3 times a week. And that you expect them to request referral for specialist assessment and treatment

Soontobe60 · 28/04/2022 16:42

Oh my love, it sounds like a nightmare situation for you. First of all, you need to stop visiting your father every day. Whether you go or not will make very little difference to his behaviour. The vascular dementia is the cause. You need to put your energies into sorting out the financial issues.
Firstly, has your father had a DOL assessment via the LA? if he is being held in the home against his will because he’s not safe, this should be done urgently. Contact the a]care home and ask them, if they don’t know, contact adult social services.
Secondly, if your father has been assessed as needing full time residential care, and he is not currently able to pay for the home he is now in, he will not just be thrown out and sent to live with you. He will be placed in somewhere where the LA will have to pay for his place. Again, you need to speak to social care about this.
when you say you applied for POA, was this before he was diagnosed? If not, I’m afraid it may not be granted. And I know from experience that if it isn’t, the banks may not engage with you. Nor will the house be able to be sold if he’s not able to have capacity. Once again, speak to Social care about how to apply to the Court of Protection for urgent guardianship.

DPotter · 28/04/2022 16:40

From what I understand you have to play hard ball with banks for them to act on POA. They say they can't deal with it in branch - but they can, by helping you speak to the right person within the organisation. One friend walked into her local branch with enough food and drink for the day and said she'd stay there until it was sorted. It was sorted that day.

It's a disgrace they way they act; I would image a very high proportion of POA need to be enacted (or whatever the phrase is) quickly as things are in crisis, yet they spend months getting around to them.

stayathomegardener · 28/04/2022 16:36

@Horological having just been through this with mum I found the opposite, the council did everything to wriggle out of taking a charge over mums house but the home itself did.
That was all organised by the Social worker that was allocated to us.

You might have a problem with values though as both options need to ascertain there's enough equity in the property to take the risk.

A couple of other points, £1,200 seems steep for dementia care for a week, mums was initially £950 Crowborough SE and now she's moved closer to a much nicer place in the NW it's £900 both on a room rate basis not individual care needs.

And you definitely are not stupid, it's both confusing and draining Flowers

BlanketsBanned · 28/04/2022 16:36

Who is holding up the poa, is it the oog or the bank. The staff need to asess his behaviou and its not fair on him or you if all he does is upset you when you visit, the nurse can speak to his doctor to try and manage this if they can. Its not up to you or your dh to manage his mental health or behaviour.

Original poster
LeeMucklowesCurtains · 28/04/2022 16:30

sorryiasked · 28/04/2022 16:22

I'm in a similar position albeit thankfully currently have sufficient cash in relative's bank account to pay for the next few months whilst waiting for flat to sell.
I also signed a guarantor form but as power of Attorney, ie as representative for relative not as myself. Therefore its not my debt, it's his.
Please inform the care home that you are just the representative and are not ordinal liable for the debt. They will get their money when the flat sells.

and thanks for this - I will speak to them again re the guarantor

OP posts:
Original poster
LeeMucklowesCurtains · 28/04/2022 16:29

sorryiasked · 28/04/2022 16:22

I'm in a similar position albeit thankfully currently have sufficient cash in relative's bank account to pay for the next few months whilst waiting for flat to sell.
I also signed a guarantor form but as power of Attorney, ie as representative for relative not as myself. Therefore its not my debt, it's his.
Please inform the care home that you are just the representative and are not ordinal liable for the debt. They will get their money when the flat sells.

He does have the cash in the bank to pay for some months.

I am just scared of the flat not selling.

Hence wanting deferred payment to give more time.

OP posts:
Original poster
LeeMucklowesCurtains · 28/04/2022 16:28

Franklin12 · 28/04/2022 16:20

Went through all of this two years ago. Father now in a care home but I had to unravel his finances and his house which was a nightmare.

My only tip here is when you get POA go IN PERSON to your Dad's bank. Do NOT try and do it over the phone. I had plenty of compensation given to me because I was being told duff information from offshore call centres who I could barely understand and who often didnt understand what a POA can do.

I was asked to send the whole of the POA, told to send the original ONLY etc etc from people who should have known better. There should be a seperate telephone number at the big banks for POA queries. Its complex and more and more of us are having to register ourselves.

I did go in person.

They wouldn’t speak to me, said they didn’t deal with it in branch and gave me an email address.

OP posts:
Original poster
LeeMucklowesCurtains · 28/04/2022 16:26

I need to defend my husband here @AnotherTroyforHertoBurn

He’s put up with more shit over the last year, quietly, than most people would be able to stand.

My dad has caused us significant financial loss with the fire, put our children at risk with his behaviours while living with us, almost lost dh his job with all the time off he’s had to take to deal with him.

He sat up for hours at night watching my dad while he was with us, reassuring him, keeping him safe. He’s showered him, cleaned up his shit.

My dad needs us to visit everyday or he’s unmanageable. I can’t handle it every day as my dad can be incredibly abusive sometimes. Every other day, dh takes an hour and a half from when he should be doing over time, meaning that he works until 11pm, and goes to visit my dad and sits there being called all the names under the sun, gets accused of stealing his money, gets told he’s a waste of space and should be dead (the same as I get), and he does it with a smile on his face, never says anything as he knows it’s the illness talking and that if we didn’t visit, it sends my dad spiralling downhill.

The only things that have pushed him to his limits is when my dad tried to feed the baby a lithium hearing aid battery and could have killed her when I was sat there with them and I looked away for a second to tie my dads shoe and now the thought that he’s been through all this, for me, and there could be a possibility that we could lose everything he’s worked himself into exhaustion to get just because of my dad. It’s hard to be quietly annoyed in those situations. In fact, he’s not shouting. He’s just incredibly upset and frustrated that life is like this. It’s unfair.

And that’s not mentioning that he’s been looking after me too, and the children and house as well as working when I’ve been ill.

Not a lot of people would have put up with what he has and keep going. I don’t think I would have coped like him, I can’t. He does what he can trying to sort out all this shit as well, but there are only so many hours in the day and he has to prioritise work or we are screwed.

OP posts:
sorryiasked · 28/04/2022 16:22

I'm in a similar position albeit thankfully currently have sufficient cash in relative's bank account to pay for the next few months whilst waiting for flat to sell.
I also signed a guarantor form but as power of Attorney, ie as representative for relative not as myself. Therefore its not my debt, it's his.
Please inform the care home that you are just the representative and are not ordinal liable for the debt. They will get their money when the flat sells.

Franklin12 · 28/04/2022 16:21

He had numerous bank accounts hence the fact I am a bit of an expert!

Franklin12 · 28/04/2022 16:20

Went through all of this two years ago. Father now in a care home but I had to unravel his finances and his house which was a nightmare.

My only tip here is when you get POA go IN PERSON to your Dad's bank. Do NOT try and do it over the phone. I had plenty of compensation given to me because I was being told duff information from offshore call centres who I could barely understand and who often didnt understand what a POA can do.

I was asked to send the whole of the POA, told to send the original ONLY etc etc from people who should have known better. There should be a seperate telephone number at the big banks for POA queries. Its complex and more and more of us are having to register ourselves.

Horological · 28/04/2022 16:13

I really, really feel for you. I went through something very similar a couple of years ago.

It's quite a common issue that people can't pay care home fees until the sale of a home. Although my dad was self funding he had a social worker because of a similar situation to your dad. The council have a deferred payment system. It's a loan that you pay off when the house is sold. It is complicated and it totally scrambled my brain to organise it, but that is your way out of the situation. Care homes don't get involved in it, but councils do, and will.

Age UK were quite helpful but it's hit and miss who you get on the phone. You just have to keep trying. I wish you luck!

Original poster
LeeMucklowesCurtains · 28/04/2022 16:09

quicklybeingdrivenmad · 28/04/2022 15:27

Firstly you are not thick I went through this with my parents thought I was losing my mind

1)Apply for Attendance allowance his NI number will be on his bank statement next to his state pension, you have POA so just go into the bank and get a statement.

2)Ring and get Attendence allowance forms sent out, now so when awarded it is backdated to when you requested the forms.( you get six weeks to fill them in from memory)

  1. Speak to Adult social services and request a continuing healthcare funding assessment (easy to get assessment but hard to get but not impossible to get the funding)

  2. Car do an online transfer via DVLA bear in mind if he has dementia and lost his licence he would not be able to insure it, so could be another headache for you, other option sorn it and stick it up the drive unisured if its only worth £700

  3. Council tax, you can get a refund from the date he was diagnosed.

  4. I fought the local authority and got a contract through them which capped the fees at the council rate over £400 per week cheaper than private (even though mum was self funding, this could be even more possible if you defer fees through the council.

Wish you and your family all the best and if you need any help/ advice just message me as I have been through this with both mum and dad xx

Yeah we are just going to leave his car to rot on the drive to be honest. We can’t afford to insure another one.

I didn’t realise his NI number would be on statements. We can’t get one though until they have approved the POA.

I email twice a week. I have made a complaint last week as it’s causing my dad distress. Hardly any of his clothes fit, and the ones that did the last home lost. he needs to buy more but I can’t access his money. I don’t have a penny spare to get him any.

OP posts:
HannahPurna · 28/04/2022 16:07

Age UK and the Alzheimer’s Society will help with most of this.
Been through similar with my father and Age UK were fabulous (all in the middle of the very first lockdown).

newbiename · 28/04/2022 16:00

AnotherTroyforHertoBurn · 28/04/2022 15:29

@newbiename

I accept that, but my Dh would not be throwing the head, he would be quietly supportive and privately annoyed.

Guess we are all different.

Yes , I see what you mean. Hard not to get stressed though 😬

WaspStingsAreAwful · 28/04/2022 15:48

Sorry for all your troubles OP. You will get there in the end. Take a deep breath and prioritise what you absolutely NEED to do now, and then next, and so on.

Would you consider getting Citizen's Advice about this? They may know of firms who will take over the administration and liaise with all the relevant parties. Worth the money to have it all done for you, which you could I suppose reclaim from your father's account when it is all sorted. It is all for his benefit anyway.

I was in a similar situation to yours with my late mother and I was overwhelmed and am not ashamed to say, I got help from Citizen's Advice, engaged a solicitor who in turn contracted all the admin out to a legal assistant. It was a bloody godsend. I am not in UK, so don't know if you can do that there. But worth checking out all the same.

Stopppricrastinating · 28/04/2022 15:39

OP you sound horribly stressed. You have been through an awful lot. Hoping you can effect some change with the bank soon.

You will get through this.

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