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Elderly parents

Paranoid MIL - what do we do?

55 replies

TonTonMacoute · 07/08/2021 16:43

MIL is in her 80s.

We have suspected that she might be developing dementia for a few years now, but over the last few weeks she has suddenly become extremely paranoid.

DH is an only child, she lives close by and we do a lot for her, but now has suddenly started accusing DH of stealing or hiding her things. She is absolutely convinced that he sneaks into her house and moves or hides her things (often jewellery but letters too). Then, when they inevitably turn up again, he has sneaked in again and put them back.

DS and I are accused of helping him and covering for him. There is no way of reasoning with her about this.

We have spoken to her GP, and they did do some tests and have apparently told MIL that there is nothing wrong with her.

Has anyone else been through this?

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OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 17/08/2021 15:48

Oh that's good news.

TonTonMacoute · 17/08/2021 14:19

A quick update.

We have just had a phone call out of the blue from a nurse with the local dementia care service. I assume that the GP had spotted problems with MIL's assessment and had referred her to them.

Apparently the nurse rang MIL this morning to offer any help she needed and to arrange for a visit to make an assessment. Obviously MIL has rejected all this but they are well used to that.

She had a long chat with us and she is going to try again and report back in a few days.

I know we still have a long road ahead but it is a relief to know that she is at least registered 'in the system' somewhere which should make it a bit easier to access help.

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PermanentTemporary · 14/08/2021 22:21

I do think the surgeons need to know about any cognitive concerns before the operation as she would be much higher risk for delirium after the operation. Is she due for a pre-operative assessment? You could write to or talk to the nurse who does that assessment.

TonTonMacoute · 14/08/2021 12:56

@Muchmorethan

Goodness, I would certainly hope it wouldn't come to that but that is very useful to know. Thank you.

I have been thinking about this issue of consent for the op. At times she is fine and clearly understands then implications. She had a meeting with a clinical practitioner last week which seemed to go fine.

There are definitely times when she would not be fit to give consent though.

I don't know which valve it is, but I don't think she is going to be able look after herself at home for some time afterwards, even with us being almost next door.

We have been making sure that she is eating better and that has improved things. But we really just have to take one day at a time

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Berthatydfil · 14/08/2021 11:18

Oops…. Of years earlier.
I also recall the surgeons having a pretty serious conversation with them about the surgery and the risks etc and I’m sure that they would have to be 100 sure about capacity before continuing

lljkk · 14/08/2021 11:11

MIL has said that the GP rang her and said that we had to sort it out between ourselves, so that's all we know. The GP could easily have said 'there are signs of dementia, you should talk to your family' but we only have MILs word for what passed between them.

mmmm... don't underestimate how selective MIL's memory & hearing may have become.

Adult Social Services

Berthatydfil · 14/08/2021 10:59

What valve is it? My relative had to have part of the heart/aorta cut away to do the surgery however they had been putting it off for quite a few years as their spouse had been in declining health and they didn’t want to leave them even for a few days. I don’t know if it might have been possible to have had a less invasive procedure if they had had it done a couple

Muchmorethan · 14/08/2021 10:42

The hospital may decide that she does not have mental capacity to consent and may cancel the operation.

If that happens .... and this is an awful thing to say especially as I'm a nurse, but refuse to take her home. This will be an ideal opportunity to get her assessed.

Ask for the Adult Safeguarding Team to come and see her.

TonTonMacoute · 12/08/2021 11:53

@Berthatydfil

Her doctors have been pushing her to have this procedure for a while but they couldn't do it via the vascular system and she was adamant that she did not want open heart surgery, so they are doing it keyhole, but it's still going to be a big deal in physical terms.

I am hoping that we can use the recovery period as an excuse to get her some help in the home or, even better, to persuade her to go into a convalescent home for a while.

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Berthatydfil · 11/08/2021 16:11

My relative had a heart valve replacement - it wasn’t a simple procedure.
Do you know any more about what they are planning to do? With my relative her sternum was cut open and although the surgery is considered almost routine she had a couple of days in intensive care plus a few more days on the ward before she could go home, but once home required surgical stockings for a period and she was severely limited in what she could do because of her healing sternum ie no lifting pushing pulling using her arms to get up from a sitting position etc.

NotWanting · 11/08/2021 16:00

It's so difficult isn't it.

My mum was vile to my dad - accused him of all sorts from stealing money to staying she had attacked him.

It all feels so helpless.

Hope you get help soon

TonTonMacoute · 11/08/2021 15:35

@RatherBeRiding

Things have been a bit calmer the last few days, and I think we have been managing things a bit better.

MIL is due for a heart valve replacement procedure soon, she has had a lot of tests and examinations and we are waiting for a date.

We are hoping that we will be able to use this as an excuse to get a whole lot of people involved without her getting too suspicious. She is going to have to stay in hospital for a few days anyway, so it may get picked up then anyway. Here's hoping.

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Pomegranita · 11/08/2021 15:32

Yes, with an elderly neighbour we used to help. By the time she eventually went into residential care, she had pissed off almost everyone in the street, accusing them of stealing, breaking in or peering in her windows at night, and badmouthing them to her family (who lived 200 miles away) and all the other neighbours. People don't want to help if they're going to get "turned on", even if they know it's a common progression of dementia.
Even I (who knew her best) was cautious about offering help after she threatened me with the police for breaking in and stealing her shoes. She also accused hospital staff of eyeing up her jewellery, walking sticks and coats, and when she went into a care home, she flatly refused to take anything with her and had to be bought all new clothes which staff could pretend were "just something they had to hand".. it would be comical if it wasn't so sad.

TonTonMacoute · 11/08/2021 15:28

@OrangeBlossomsinthesun

We raised our concerns with the GP and they invited her in for tests. They can't tell us the results, only MIL.

MIL has said that the GP rang her and said that we had to sort it out between ourselves, so that's all we know. The GP could easily have said 'there are signs of dementia, you should talk to your family' but we only have MILs word for what passed between them.

It is crazy, it's all about data protection, but what's the point of protecting someone's data if it means their health and well being are at risk!

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loobylou10 · 11/08/2021 15:26

My mum was like this - paranoia and psychosis - was diagnosed with Lewy Body Dementia after a brain scan. I would push for a scan OP. Thanks

RatherBeRiding · 11/08/2021 15:14

You can always (or rather your DH as he is his mother's Nearest Relative under the terms of the Mental Health Act) approach the mental health department of your local authority and request a formal assessment under the Mental Health Act. This is a legal right by a person's Nearest Relative in law, and the local authority HAS to consider making an assessment even if, after consideration, they decide not to do so.

This might be a heavy handed approach and may well lead to your MiL becoming even more paranoid if she thinks her son is trying to get her "put away" in a psychiatric hospital but it could well be worth a chat with the mental health team within your local authority, for advice about where to go next if nothing else.

OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 10/08/2021 14:08

I think it's awful. Have they done the cognitive tests? There are specific ones they use for dementia. Mil scored 2 out of 10.

TonTonMacoute · 10/08/2021 14:05

We have explained all that, they have done their tests, can't find anything wrong and that's that as far as they are concerned.

I have sent them a recording of MIL in full rant against DH, calling him a pig, accusing him of all sorts and telling him to get out. No one hearing it would be in any doubt that something was seriously wrong.

It might take them a couple of days to respond, if not then we will chase it up again. If they still do nothing then I will complain.

I've been talking to a friend whose 90 FIL is very frail, and they are also having a nightmare time. Her DH was chatting to staff in the A&E during the 9 hours he was waiting and trying to get something done and the nurses and paramedics were all complaining about GPs who are refusing to see anyone, and the hospitals are just being swamped.

I think there is going to be quite a reckoning for GPs practices in the future. The more they get paid the less they seem to want to do.

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SinisterBumFacedCat · 09/08/2021 23:28

I would suggest writing to the GP, explaining its memory loss and paranoia and give examples, plus remind them how well they treated your parents. Then copy in local Adult Social Services and local Mental Health department. In both parents cases I had to write to GP to get a referral.

OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 09/08/2021 19:41

Do you think the GP doesn't understand she's suffering paranoid delusions? Thinks it's just her arguing with DH?

OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 09/08/2021 19:40

were told that the GP is going to do nothing about it and we must sort it out between us. that's really terrible.

TonTonMacoute · 09/08/2021 19:32

Well, poor old DH got both barrels this morning but he did manage to record it on his phone. It's brutal stuff, she did actually phone me during this to plead with me to 'stop him doing this to me' accusing him of all sorts and threatening to call the police. In fact I wish she would because it might help us move things along.

Following the Alzheimer's helpline advice we we rang the surgery this afternoon, and were told that the GP is going to do nothing about it and we must sort it out between us. Confused. All we want is a referral! I was quite shocked as this is a very nice rural practice, we have been patients for over 20 years, and they were brilliant with my parents when my DM developed dementia.

We have sent the a copy of the recording DH made so we are hoping they might call us again after they have listened to it, as it would be immediately obvious that nothing could be sorted out with MiL in the state she is in.

Anyway, she is due to go in to hospital for a heart procedure at some time in the future so I guess we will just have to wait until then and use that as a launch pad to get someone to do something. And if she gets in her car and causes an accident it's down to the GP.

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OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 09/08/2021 09:49

They can have more than one type, they can have Alzheimer's and vascular dementia for instance or Alzheimer's and senile dementia (MIL's sister's diagnosis). The doctors recently said Mil's Alzheimer's may include and a certain degree of vascular dementia, which makes sense as it has progressed quit fast, which vascular often does.

OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 09/08/2021 09:47

I got it more than Dh with MIL, I think it was easier to accuse me, her DIL, than her beloved only child, DH. Although she loves me like a daughter too, but it seemed more directed at me. But I was glad as it was less hurtful to me as a DIL I think than it would have been to DH iyswim. I was happy to take the brunt of it in that sense, for both their sakes.
She still thinks people are taking her things in the home, but with the antipsychotics it's less fire and fury and also, we don't have it directed so much at us.
Delirium is specifically hallucinations, MIL hasn't had that, it's paranoia and suspicion. And confusion. Thinking people are stealign things/money is absolutely classic Alzheimers. Vascular dementia and lewy bodies dementia more commonly include delirium.

TonTonMacoute · 09/08/2021 09:40

@BunnyRuddington

My DM had dementia and definitely had delirium, but I haven't noticed it with MIL as such, apart from the absolute conviction that DH is moving her things around.

@SinisterBumFacedCat

I sympathise utterly. DH is really taking all the brunt of her accusations, yet she still wants him to go over all the time. He has to sit and listen to all her wild scenarios and is expected to admit he has done it all.

It is really getting him down. If it's any consolation (it won't be) the dementia helpline said it's always the person who does the most for, or spends most time with, the patient who bears the brunt of it.

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