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Elderly parents
Original poster

Aunt has to go to nursing home - she thinks she's coming home

113 replies

CrystalFlyer · 02/05/2021 19:41

My Aunt has been living with my mother, her sister-in-law. It's my mums house. My mum is 79 & my Aunt 89.

Thursday my aunt had a fall (due to her not using her walking stick) and has broken her wrist and has a bleed on her brain. So she's in hospital currently .

My mum has decided she can't come home. She can't look after her and she nursed her mother and my Dad as they died and she's not doing it again at her age. Which is fair enough.

My Aunt doesn't know yet. I obviously need to have conversations with the hospital as to what we do next but I'm just not sure how to tell my aunt she's not coming home. Someone in the hospital will have to do it as visitors aren't allowed and she's very hard of hearing and can't hear me on the phone.

Anyone have any experience with this? I think she would actually do well in a home and if possible we'd bring her home for the day occasionally.

I'm worried about the capacity issue as well. She's mentally ok so she would say she wants to go home but my mum is refusing to let her back in the house.

OP posts:
PermanentTemporary · 11/05/2021 22:48

I would ask if a care diary has been done, ie a realistic record of the care required on the ward. But hold fast that she can no longer live at your mother's house.

Minthambug · 11/05/2021 22:46

If she is self funding then she can go to whatever accomodation she choices (if she has capacity). It would be unusual for the hospital to agree to her staying in an acute medical bed while she chooses if it takes a while

The difficulty comes if she needs funding by social services. If so it will be up to their assesment what level of care she needs, if they feel she would manage with a care package then they may explore sheltered accomodation, or even independent living with a care package. Just because you can't have her home doesnt automatically mean she will fit the criteria for residential care unfortunately. Often there is pressure to try things like a home care package first, especially if the person is asking for it, in order to prove it doesnt work. Social services funding tends to work on escalations so it can be hard if you are attempting to get funding for a care home without trying lower steps first

thesandwich · 11/05/2021 22:28

Sorry your mum is upset.
Great advice from others- duty of care etc good phrases.
Good luck tomorrow.
Repeat repeat.

Original poster
CrystalFlyer · 11/05/2021 18:30

I just called my mum to let her know what was happening and she sounded so panicked at the fact that the hospital could even consider having her come ‘home’.

OP posts:
cptartapp · 11/05/2021 18:20

The duty of care to a vulnerable adult is theirs. Remind them of that.
It might be a headache to sort but that's their and social services issue and not yours. If feeling really strong you can threaten to bring her right back and leave her in A&E if they send her home. It does happen! More than you might imagine.
Any transfer to other accomodation etc can be blamed to your aunt on the doctor.

romdowa · 11/05/2021 18:12

@CrystalFlyer

romdowa I was talking to a friend who's been through this and she basically said that I need to take my husband with me for backup! She wished she'd taken her husband.

That's a good like about failing in their duty of care to her.

It's like the discharge person was just not hearing me about the fact she doesn't have a home to go to!

I'm usually not great about standing up for myself but I'm not standing up for myself, I'm standing up for my mum so that makes it easier.

I've been through the same when my father wasn't well enough to come home years ago. They don't care where they go as long as they get the bed free. Your friend is probably right and get your husband to do all the talking , they will promise home help and it won't materialise. Just keep repeating she has no home and nobody can take her. Its their responsibility to discharge her to somewhere safe and it's easier for them for you to resume that responsibility.
PermanentTemporary · 11/05/2021 18:11

I am absolutely not an expert but I wonder if a short letter in writing from your mum stating that your aunt can no longer live at [the address] might help concentrate minds?

Original poster
CrystalFlyer · 11/05/2021 18:07

The discharge person also kept saying that they couldn't force her into a nursing home and when I kept saying she couldn't go home she said "other accommodation" would have to be considered?! She's an 89 year old woman, she's not going to consent to "other accommodation" - whatever that is!!!!

OP posts:
Original poster
CrystalFlyer · 11/05/2021 18:05

romdowa I was talking to a friend who's been through this and she basically said that I need to take my husband with me for backup! She wished she'd taken her husband.

That's a good like about failing in their duty of care to her.

It's like the discharge person was just not hearing me about the fact she doesn't have a home to go to!

I'm usually not great about standing up for myself but I'm not standing up for myself, I'm standing up for my mum so that makes it easier.

OP posts:
cptartapp · 11/05/2021 18:04

Just stand firm. Don't negotiate, don't explain. They absolutely cannot make you take her back. Threaten to lock up and go out if your mum has to.
It's far easier for them to send her 'home' but that's not your problem.

romdowa · 11/05/2021 17:55

@CrystalFlyer

Well that was going way too smoothly! Had a call from a different discharge coordinator today that basically my Aunt was saying she wanted to go home so they couldn't force her to go into a nursing home. Despite me explaining that she didn't have a HOME to go to and that she doesn't know that my mother is refusing to have her back. So of course if asked the question "Do you want to go home or into a nursing home" she's saying she wants to go home!

I asked several time to be allowed come in and speak to my Aunt but now the discharge coordinator seems to be acting like I'm going to bully my Aunt into saying she wants to go to a nursing home so instead tomorrow there's going to be a multi-disciplinary meeting with her Doctor, Physio, OT, the discharge coordinator, my Aunt and me and I'm taking my husband with me. I asked if I could speak with my Aunt first and she said I can speak to her after the meeting.

Anyone any experience with this kind of meeting?

Typical hse they will try and bully you into taking her home. Just stand firm and say that there is nobody to care for her at all. That nobody can do it and that they have a duty of care towards her and they would be failing in that duty of care to allow her to be discharged when there is nobody to care for her and she is unable to care for herself
Original poster
CrystalFlyer · 11/05/2021 17:45

How would I demonstrate she has no stake in the house? I could print off the land register folio which would show its in mums name but that costs €40 so would prefer not to.

I’ve got a call in to mums G.P to see if he would write a letter stating how mum isn’t physically able to look after my Aunt.

The discharge coordinator already tried to suggest home help but I pointed out that personal care for my Aunt isn’t the issue. It’s when she needs help back from the bathroom in the middle of the night, or falls and is covered in blood.

OP posts:
thesandwich · 11/05/2021 17:25

Oh crystal that's really tough.
Wonder if @hatgirl or @emmagrundyforpm ( I think) who are v knowledgeable can advise?
I think phrases like carer breakdown are useful - saying your dm cannot care for her although they may offer a care package.....
good luck. Can you demonstrate she has no stake in the house?

Original poster
CrystalFlyer · 11/05/2021 16:37

Well that was going way too smoothly! Had a call from a different discharge coordinator today that basically my Aunt was saying she wanted to go home so they couldn't force her to go into a nursing home. Despite me explaining that she didn't have a HOME to go to and that she doesn't know that my mother is refusing to have her back. So of course if asked the question "Do you want to go home or into a nursing home" she's saying she wants to go home!

I asked several time to be allowed come in and speak to my Aunt but now the discharge coordinator seems to be acting like I'm going to bully my Aunt into saying she wants to go to a nursing home so instead tomorrow there's going to be a multi-disciplinary meeting with her Doctor, Physio, OT, the discharge coordinator, my Aunt and me and I'm taking my husband with me. I asked if I could speak with my Aunt first and she said I can speak to her after the meeting.

Anyone any experience with this kind of meeting?

OP posts:
Original poster
CrystalFlyer · 06/05/2021 15:56

Getting things done. Bank are posting the statement to my aunts address no problem.
Valuation of plot of land is arranged for 8.30am tomorrow.
Pharmacy are printing off her meds from the last year and will be ready tomorrow.
Once I have those I need an accountant to do accounts.

And I have a few questions for the discharge co-ordinator who is due to call me tomorrow.

OP posts:
BunnyRuddington · 06/05/2021 08:20

I remember your other thread and I'm not surprised your DM has had enough.

Original poster
CrystalFlyer · 06/05/2021 08:12

Thanks to all the links for funding but I’m in Ireland.

vdbfamily she has no property of her own. She was living with her brother and sister but moved in with my mum and dad when they passed away. She has no stake in my mums property. My mum is done. To be honest they never actually got on that well.

OP posts:
vdbfamily · 05/05/2021 23:37

I would want to know a bit more about this if I was her OT in the hospital. Does she have any stake in the property or its it your mother's? How did she come to be living there and did she ever own a property.
How much care is she needing. I would respect someone's right to say they do not want to assist with care but it may be that cares can provide that care at home at this stage. If she has night needs this is more difficult and a home may be only option.

Smartiepants79 · 05/05/2021 23:28

My experience of my mother dealing with my grandparents finances has been that banks will not deal with you without jumping through many hoops and signing of many forms etc etc and that’s with a power of attorney.
You need to speak to her bank and find out their requirements to allow a relative to deal with them.
She may have no choice but to do at least some of it herself.
Age concern may be able to be helpful?

Smartiepants79 · 05/05/2021 23:24

Sounds like you need power of attorney and fast.

Original poster
CrystalFlyer · 05/05/2021 21:23

I need to get bank statements going back 6 months (this might be difficult as I have no authority to speak to the bank on her behalf and she can’t do it!)
I need valuations on a small plot of land & forestry she owns
Need something from the pharmacy showing her spend on her medications
And I need to put all this info into an application for funding form.
Oh and her pension details.

OP posts:
BunnyRuddington · 05/05/2021 19:51

What sorts of things do you need to get together @CrystalFlyer?

Original poster
CrystalFlyer · 05/05/2021 18:18

Things are moving. I got a call from the discharge co-ordinator. She’s e-mailing me a list of things I need to get together. She was going to have me call into my Aunt on Monday to tell her she’s going into a home but I said I’d prefer to wait until things are more definite so that I can tell her where and when she’s going, especially with her anxiety.

She wasn’t getting her anxiety tablet but the nurse I was speaking to said she’d follow it up and took the name of my aunts g.p to confirm dosage.

OP posts:
BunnyRuddington · 05/05/2021 07:42

I agree with MissLucy.

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