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Elderly parents
Original poster

De-tangling father in laws finances & entitlments

57 replies

Comefromaway · 27/04/2021 17:56

Fil is in a right state and his Dd (my sil) has asked me to help as I’m apparentky good with this kind of stuff.

Long story short, he’d been caring for mil with dementia. This took a huge toll on his mental & physical health. He was rushed into hospital last summer and things come to a head. He’d been sticking his ear in the sand, refusing help etc but he reached crisis point a few weeks ago and mil went into respite care (long overdue). He then understandably said he didn’t want her back (she was violent, refused all personal care help, smelt of urine etc etc).

Anyway long story short she’s been assessed as having no capacity and requiring 24/7 care in a home. Someone came to do do a financial assessment.

They own their own house jointly (no mortgage) only worth about £45k needs a lot of work. They have some savings in the bank & individual ISA. Under the savings limit with regards to the care home fees but just over the limit for pension credit.

He’s received a letter that apparently says his pension is going to be reduced to £130 per week. I’m assuming it’s because he’s now going to be classed as a single person. He says he can’t live on that and will have to go back to work part time. (His knees are so bad he can’t walk without pain & he suffers angina, pancreatitis. He’s on anti depressants.

I’m getying him too bring al his financial paperwork for me to look through. Mil gets a small private pension but I don’t think he does though I can’t be sure. Also I’m assuming now the ISA in her name can’t go towards his income. Do we have to declare all the other savings or split them in half. I assume mild pension will go to the home (my nans did)

Are they any other things I should be investigating. I thought of attendance allowance but he doesn’t need help with personal care even though his knees & pancreas are shot. But he does neglect himself when he gets depressed. We do have him round as often as possible and cook him a meal etc.

He got single person council tax and mil wasn’t counted due to the dements. I’m assuming he will no longer get her attendance allowance now she’s in the home.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 27/04/2021 23:51

😂😂😂

It's such a nightmare!

Original poster
Comefromaway · 27/04/2021 23:41

@RandomMess

Take away on FIL then 😂
But only if it isn’t deprivation of assets!
OP posts:
RandomMess · 27/04/2021 23:23

Take away on FIL then 😂

hatgirl · 27/04/2021 23:21

@Comefromaway

So he left about half an hour ago. We’ve been wading through 3 boxes of paperwork.

He thought he was getting £215 pension for them both as a couple plus mil private pension & this would drop down to £130 as a single person. He wasn’t. The £215 is his alone, basic state pension plus top ups for paying into Additional State Pension & a scheme in the early 70s called Graduated pension benefit. Mil’s state pension goes in separate. Her state pension is a bit less than his.

This is why he’s not eligible for pension credit. His income is too high. And they’ve not even been spending anywhere near it and that’s with all these daft insurances & incredibly high broadband & mobile phone.

I also found out the assessment was for a care package at home. Mil was being classed as a self funder for that. But now she’s not coming home a new assessment needs to be done. It’s going to be by telephone but I’m going to book a day off work to be with him. Dh is a teacher so he can’t.

But ultimately he’s a bit happier that they aren’t going to take his £215 per week off him & reduce it to £130 and he can live on that

I wasn't wanting to doubt you/FIL Grin but I suspected something like this may be the case as FILs situation isn't unusual at all and I was surprised that he was so worried and that no one had mentioned the pension disregard.

The local authority financial assessors are usually very skilled in teasing out the information they need and giving an answer pretty quickly about costs. They aren't in the business of leaving older people destitute because their spouse had to go into care.

Hopefully FIL is feeling less stressed about it all now.

Original poster
Comefromaway · 27/04/2021 23:21

A bit frazzled! I spent ages trying to work out what a £690 regular payment from DWP was with mils NI number before finally realising she gets her state pension monthly, not weekly!

And they have more savings than we thought too.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 27/04/2021 23:15

Well that's good news buy a bit worrying at how clueless he has been about his own finances.

You must be shattered!

Original poster
Comefromaway · 27/04/2021 23:09

So he left about half an hour ago. We’ve been wading through 3 boxes of paperwork.

He thought he was getting £215 pension for them both as a couple plus mil private pension & this would drop down to £130 as a single person. He wasn’t. The £215 is his alone, basic state pension plus top ups for paying into Additional State Pension & a scheme in the early 70s called Graduated pension benefit. Mil’s state pension goes in separate. Her state pension is a bit less than his.

This is why he’s not eligible for pension credit. His income is too high. And they’ve not even been spending anywhere near it and that’s with all these daft insurances & incredibly high broadband & mobile phone.

I also found out the assessment was for a care package at home. Mil was being classed as a self funder for that. But now she’s not coming home a new assessment needs to be done. It’s going to be by telephone but I’m going to book a day off work to be with him. Dh is a teacher so he can’t.

But ultimately he’s a bit happier that they aren’t going to take his £215 per week off him & reduce it to £130 and he can live on that

OP posts:
Original poster
Comefromaway · 27/04/2021 22:51

@Bargebill19

I would apply for attendance allowance for him. Complete the form as if it was his worst day health wise. It sounds as if he could need help with preparing food and general cleaning etc. Write down everything - such as needs glasses, hearing aids, uses a walking stick. May seem daft, but it’s a points based award, not taxed and WAS independent of other financial assessments. I have been out of the loop for a few years - hopefully someone will clarify if this is still the case. If you don’t apply, you don’t get. The worst thing to happen is they say ‘no’.
My parents applied for it about 18 months ago for an old family friend they help and I helped them answer the questions so am familiar with the form and how to word things.
OP posts:
BunnyRuddington · 27/04/2021 20:57

If the house needs a lot of work, can he use some of his savings to bring him under the threshold for Pension Credit?

doodleZ1 · 27/04/2021 20:29

Try entitledto.co.uk website. You put in what you know and they give you an immediate answer to your benefit entitlements for your relative.

hatgirl · 27/04/2021 19:43

I suspect if there has been a financial assessment by the local authority then it has already been determined that she isn't eligible for CHC.

Under the Care Act 2014 local authorities should screen for CHC as part of their assessment process before undertaking a financial assessment for social care (although people can ask for a pre-assessment financial assessment if they want).

It's in the local authority's interests to have people awarded CHC as it means they aren't responsible for arranging or funding the placement so it's not something they usually neglect to fulfil their duty on.

Cottonheadedninymuggins · 27/04/2021 19:30

www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/money-work-and-benefits/nhs-continuing-healthcare/ - sorry forgot the link

Cottonheadedninymuggins · 27/04/2021 19:30

If your MIL qualifies for NHS Continuing Health Care her fees for being in the home are covered by the NHS and her pension will not be taken to pay for it - meaning her pension will be fully available for everything she needs which may free up some extra cash that doesn't need to come from family to pay for things for her like treats, new clothes, hairdressers, books etc etc.

hopefulmamaofone · 27/04/2021 19:04

With regards to pension credit, if mil is in the care home on a permanent basis, they can each now claim pension credit as a single person as they are living separately. This should increase the amount fil gets unless there were carer's premium's etc. If they were previously claiming PC then it needs to be reassessed by the pensions service and whoever was the secondary claimant needs to make a claim in their own right.
As for the savings, any savings in both mil and fil's names will be split i half in the eyes of DWP so of £14k, only £7k would be considered for fil which is under the 10k threshold. If it's £14k in fil name then he could still qualify, especially if no private pensions/annuities etc. For every £500 over the £10k threshold, £1 a week is taken off the entitlement so if he has £14k he would he entitled to £8 less per week iyswim

Bargebill19 · 27/04/2021 18:53

I would apply for attendance allowance for him. Complete the form as if it was his worst day health wise. It sounds as if he could need help with preparing food and general cleaning etc.
Write down everything - such as needs glasses, hearing aids, uses a walking stick. May seem daft, but it’s a points based award, not taxed and WAS independent of other financial assessments. I have been out of the loop for a few years - hopefully someone will clarify if this is still the case.
If you don’t apply, you don’t get. The worst thing to happen is they say ‘no’.

Original poster
Comefromaway · 27/04/2021 18:53

Part of me does think that they expected their son (Dh) to live off a tiny grant based on their income at uni with no parental contribution (back in the day before student loans). He managed by moving in with me rent free.

But that was a long time ago and I shouldn’t bear grudges. Fil just did what mil said all the time.

OP posts:
minniemomo · 27/04/2021 18:53

You need to ensure she's assessed for nhs continuing care, they don't take into account income and saving with that. It's also worth talking to an age U.K. advisor to ensure he's claiming everything he can. Unfortunately he will have to use savings until he gets below the limit for pension credit

Snozzlemaid · 27/04/2021 18:49

I would take a look at the Age UK website. There's lots of help on there about benefits etc

RandomMess · 27/04/2021 18:48

Hopefully once you've ploughed your way through FIL will be less overwhelmed and realise he can live off what he receives.

alexdgr8 · 27/04/2021 18:48

suggest you contact your/ his local carers' centre, sometimes called princess royal centre.
they have specialist advisors, can help you through all this.
they are for carers, ie family/friends, rather than care-workers.
he might well be able to get attendance allowance, it isn't only for people who need personal care. this is the kind of thing they can advise you on. also you could try age uk.
good luck.

Original poster
Comefromaway · 27/04/2021 18:47

They’ve done the financial assessment for the care home fees. I don’t know the outcome yet.

OP posts:
Original poster
Comefromaway · 27/04/2021 18:45

My husband can’t drive for medical reasons and taxis round here are very expensive. Much more expensive than running a car.

OP posts:
hatgirl · 27/04/2021 18:44

I wouldn't cancel any insurances until after the financial assessment Smile.

RandomMess · 27/04/2021 18:41

Water meter should be cheaper than water rates with looking at.

Work out if using cabs/Uber is cheaper than him running a car. Pay him for dog care or carry on provide him with meals in return.

Original poster
Comefromaway · 27/04/2021 18:39

Thanks for that info hatgirl. I didn’t know that.

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