What when it's our turn?

My granny used to say, just slip a pill in my tea! But she lived on to age 89, demented and unhappy but in ok physical condition for years until she died. Murder was not an option, it turned out, however kindly it may have been meant.

Ive been reading a lot of stoic philosophy recently, and their approach to death is interesting in this context. The idea that the door is always open (suicide). I am trying to put myself at ease with this idea. To imagine what it would be like if one of my parents killed themselves, that they took the decision to do that. I’m not there yet, I can’t make room in my head for that yet.

Thanks for the link to Compassion in Dying, its an excellent website and their templates make it so easy.
A doctor once worked with commented that for DNACPR the question should be "should your heart stop beating because you have come to the end of your natural life, shall we break all your ribs and then electrocute you to see what happens?"
(No thanks!)
If I start to feel that my quality of life is going downhill at any point, and that I don't fancy getting any older I've decided I'm going to try all the Class A drugs I can get my hands on

The question of DNACPR came up during my parents care assessment this week. I was a little surprised that both Mum and Dad said yes they would want whatever invasive medical intervention necessary. Even when it was explained in detail what this could involve. I guess it's often true about feelings changing as you get older.

@stayathomer ahhh - sounds like he was a lovely chap

That was hospice not office!!!

My dad got cancer in his 70s. He had it extremely rough, but I remember him saying 'just because you're old, doesn't mean you don't want to keep living.' When I was bringing him home from the office I heard him saying to one of the men 'you keep breathing okay? I want to see you next week.' They either secretly loved him or hated him, even on his depressed days he tried to keep other people's spirits up

I have a relative who was a carer for a while for people mainly in their nineties. Most of them said they had had enough and wanted to go. Even though in their own homes with a carer coming in.

@aramox
And is anyone else thinking about trying to avoid medical interventions that keep us alive too long? Absolutely. We're not meant to live forever...why would I want to be dribbling in a piss stained chair with some shite on the BBC waiting for someone 40 years younger to wipe my arse and change my nappy? Where's the quality of life? Ooh I lived to be 100....but 30 years were in a vegetative state 🙄
Don't expect my teen to be my carer, she'll have enough on her plate.
Don't want savings wasted on a sub level home.... When they could make life easier for her..

This is such an interesting thread. My mother in law had a stroke at 88. She had bemoaned the fact that she had lived too long for a while before that. She was struggling to cope with a husband in the early stages of dementia I think and had just had enough. She refused food in hospital and basically starved herself to death. This left my father-in-law living alone and bereaved after a very long marriage of 60 plus years. He ended up in a home and died a few months later.
It was heartbreaking that such a vital fun living couple died like that . It was tragic .
My father was diagnosed with terminal cancer yet had all the radiotherapy and chemo which mad him very sick. He was going to die anyway and utterly miserable. I just don’t see the point in treatment for a terminal prognosis.

MissMarple "One of the nurses who had been a nurse for several decades actually said to me how cruel it was and how in the early years, of her nursing career, some one like my cousin would be allowed to die"

Did they give her meds to keep her alive?

I'm terrified of getting a stroke and becoming paralysed. I had a sleep paralysis few times in my life and I was so awful, I cannot imagine feeling like that for months or years! I intend to live my life fully now, while I'm still healthy, instead of waiting for retirement (which may never come).

In my experience age wipes the memory of any intentions expressed when younger around expectations of care or wanting to go. I think there is a strong survival instinct that can make those we care for and about selfish and self centred despite them having gone through the same with their own relatives

I agree with you to some extent, with some people, in some circumstances, but there are also plenty of people who currently choose not to have - for example - treatment for cancer.
My Mum didn't want it. When hers was diagnosed it was very advanced and she was predicted that she had weeks, or a very few months to live. They offered her treatment which would have made her feel quite ill, but kept her breathing for some extra months. She didn't want to know. She wasn't interested in breathing for a number of extra months but being ill for all of it. We totally respected that, as did my Dad, but one of the Drs was quite shocked and tried to persuade her to have treatment she didn't want.
Three months ago, another friend of mine, in her 80s refused cancer treatment too, as she preferred the idea of dying sooner rather than stringing out some sort of 'existence' for another year or few months.
Advances in medicine should bring you options not force you to exist in pain or with complete loss of the opportunity to 'live'.

If you follow Dignity in Dying on Facebook, a lot of people tell their stories and you can't believe the cruel hardships some people have to go through.

if you get dementia but are physically healthy you become a cash cow for an eldercare facility Yep. The Council pay low rates (can't afford to pay more) so the self funders make up the difference. You're not just paying for your care, you're paying for somebody else's too.

I agree @Zolrets. My mum always said she didn't want me looking after her, but she just became gradually more and more dependent on me, until I was doing almost everything for her. Her vulnerability made her understandably needy, and you could say, selfish.

I suppose the idea of filling in an Advanced Directive when younger means that even if I get like my mum did, I won't be given treatment (eg antibiotics) that I have said in advance I don't want if I have dementia.

In my experience age wipes the memory of any intentions expressed when younger around expectations of care or wanting to go. I think there is a strong survival instinct that can make those we care for and about selfish and self centred despite them having gone through the same with their own relatives. I also think that old age comes more rapidly than we think. At 40 you may feel you’ll embrace it and accept the end but at 70/80 it may feel like you are not old in your head and not ready at all to go.

if you get dementia but are physically healthy you become a cash cow for an eldercare facility :(

@Roystonv “ One thing no one has mentioned is I do not wish what savings I have to be used to keep me merely existing in some painful hell hole when I can no longer manage for myself. I want my dc to have them and to use the money for joy.”

This is what my DM wanted, and is what I would want. Sadly if you get dementia but are physically healthy, you’re f**ked.

I am not sure that activities give my life much meaning anyway. Difficult one. For me, what distinguishes life is learning - I'll know I've finished with life when I no longer want to learn. But what does it matter what I've learned if I don't pass it on? So at the moment I'll settle for enjoying myself, which I do. Punctuated by periods of depression when I know that I'm pretty worthless (I'm not depressed at the moment, so I'm not seeking reassurances. It's just what depression does, sucks all feelings of value out, and disguises it as an objective view)

One thing no one has mentioned is I do not wish what savings I have to be used to keep me merely existing in some painful hell hole when I can no longer manage for myself. I want my dc to have them and to use the money for joy. Absolutely! Keeping me alive against my will, and making me pay for the privilege. The words "Keeping her safe" uttered in connection with care homes chill me to the marrow.

Cowbells - yes! Agree with every word.

And the things people think are important just beggar belief. I had one auntie say of another one, who was in a care home - "She refuses to get her hair cut, what shall we do?"

I was speechless.

@Roystonv - same here wrt savings. I want DC to travel the world or build an extension or go off and do an MA in some subject they love. Not waste thousands a week to have some poor sod on brutally long shifts and minimum wage wipe up after me.

Cowbells speaks for me too, 100%. Have done all I can paperwork wise to be 'put down' when called for and family well aware of my feelings. Not quite certain how I will do it myself and promised I will not involve anyone else e.g. step in front of train. One thing no one has mentioned is I do not wish what savings I have to be used to keep me merely existing in some painful hell hole when I can no longer manage for myself. I want my dc to have them and to use the money for joy.

It's so important to talk to loved ones about their wishes before they get incapable. My mother won't discuss it with me which is difficult as as I organised POA a couple of years ago. She says the doctor knows, but they won't be asking the doctor presumably.

I agree that life should not be prolonged when there is no quality to it anymore. However, some people have caring responsibilities and fear dying as it will leave the cared for person without any support.

My plan is, when I get the illness in my seventies - the cancer or heart attack or whatever, that is supposed to kill you, I'll let it kill me. I won't ask for it to be treated. I'll explain I want DNR if I have a heart attack after 70. Almost everyone I know including both my parents had diseases that should have seen them off years ago but NHS stuffed them with drugs and chopped the bad bits out and stitched them up just so they could descend in to some twilit hell of decades of constant pain and confusion and hospital visits and lonely years eked out in dementia wards.

I hate - I really hate - our cultures obsession with life and revulsion at death. Death is normal and natural. It is not to be feared. My dad spent an hour whining at me from his care home about the food, the medication, the staff, the loneliness, the boredom, the lack of stimulation and then said he wants to be immortal. he wants to live forever. His attitude baffles me.

I have already told DH and DC I have about 15- 25 years left in me absolute maximum and then I'm out of here. I've lived the life I want to live, done the things I want to do. I have a handful of bucket list things left and of course I'd love to help raise a grandchild but that's it.

I will sign every DNR and Advanced Directive going. But it won’t help much if, like my mother, I develop dementia. She has a DNR in place, but it hasn’t been needed so far. She is now 90, very frail with advanced dementia, but survived Covid this time last year.
She wanted to be able to go quietly when she needed 24hr care 6 years ago, but sadly that isn’t possible.