My dad has sexually harassed his cleaner

I think sacking the cleaner sends completely the wrong message. What’s your issue with her coming back? Doing that just makes cleaners reluctant to speak up in future. If she’s happy to come back why are you punishing her? The cleaning company owner clearly thinks the same if she’s asking you to take some time to think it through. Can you see how it’s victim blaming?

I should just add, he would still pay the full cost of the care if savings are over the threshold, but would pay the LA instead.

Op, apologies if I've missed this or this has already been said... I would contact Adult Social Services to request a review of your dad's care needs, as he is receiving care and his 'needs have changed'.

As well as looking at whether the current care package is appropriate, it will give the opportunity for the inappropriate behaviour to be flagged. If your dad is receiving care in his home, has fluctuating mental capacity and no legally appointed representative( LPoA or Deputy), it may be appropriate for the LA to commission the care (even if he has above £23,250) to maintain that oversight for risk factors and care needs.

Indeed, and seemingly frail and respectable women grabbing a crotch and holding on tight is very common. Very challenging for young men, who are frequently ridiculed if they express how it makes them feel.
I do think it’s helpful to understand a little about why it happens, generally it’s damage to the limbic system which is common in all forms of dementia.
It’s very common for people to believe it just makes people show their true colours but that is not true. My father, who had been the sort of man who would only ever let his wive or his doctor see him naked, merrily stripped off in hospital all the time in the days before he died. I can see it happening in my ultra respectable fil who now, aged 93, makes mildly suggestive remarks to his cleaner and personal comments about complete strangers weight. Fortunately his cleaner has known him for years so is aware this is not ‘him’ but outside the house he has to be managed very carefully.

It is really common in elderly people, with or without a formal diagnosis. It is also equally common in both men and women but less reported with women. I’ve lost count of the number of young male colleagues who have been groped and propositioned by elderly women. More often than not they are encouraged to see it as amusing whereas women are, quite rightly, encouraged and supported to report and procedures are put in place to safeguard them.
The young men often feel humiliated and embarrassed, it’s like their gran coming onto them, to say nothing of being painful when their crotches are grabbed.
It is mostly to do with the changes in the brain which removes those inhibitions that we should all have. Whilst it can’t be cured, procedures should be in place to keep everyone safe at work.

He may, if he's still with it cognitively in other areas, follow rules. He is not likely to regain insight into why these things are wrong, and so the easiest thing to do is to spell out the consequences if he does them again, like you would to a child (this is very sad I know). I found that rule-setting was much easier than arguing, especially if he is intellectually clever in other ways; you have to wear clothes, you have to not touch anyone who comes into the house and so on. Disinhibition and lack of insight make for a stressful combination.

I think they are telling you that this is kind of how it is from now on, that carers and staff know this and are trained to deal with it- but it's those that come in from outside that need your help/a way of alerting you if anything inappropriate occurs, or you might just feel they cannot go in any more if he doesn't respond to things like basic rules (which of course, once people deteriorate, often they do not).

If they think he just needs speaking to I would have thought they should speak to him. And he just might take more notice of them than his offspring. I can imagine not wanting to take advice from my DS or DD.

I just want to say that I think you've done a great, proactive, assertive job of handling this. It's a horrible thing to go through and you've advocated brilliantly for the cleaner as well as supporting your dad.

Sexual disinhibition isn't unusual and it isn't restricted to men, my elderly aunt went through a phase for about two years where her behaviour to male carers in her home was horrendous and the things she'd say were more than I ever wanted to know about her sexual fantasies. That stopped and then the terror started about the spiders, huge spiders all over her room, we then moved on to wanting her mum. Currently she says very little, does very little and we move towards the end.

I found it really hard to get a diagnosis for her, she was very convincing and I had issues like the Geriatric Psychiatrist telling me off for letting her attned a hospital appointment that involved two bus journeys. I had to ask him to check with hospital transport to prove she had gone by taxi arranged by them, he didn't find me nearly as convincing as her. Social workers assured me she was shopping and eating and when I was there when they visited (not easy I live 200 miles away and am my husband's carer) I had to take them in the kitchen and show them the empty cupboards and fridge while she was assuring them about what she had cooked that day, I got them to check the bins with me to prove she had not peeled potatoes onions and carrots to make the wonderful casserole she was adamant she had prepared, cooked and eaten.

Maybe it isn't dementia but I would watch things carefully, it can progress fast or slow and that can change, so someone who has been deteriorating slowly for several years can suddenly change very rapidly.

Good luck, the strain is horrific and the only advice I can give you is to get all the help you can and if you can afford it consult a private social worker for advice as my experience was the council ones will spend alot of time telling you there is nothing wrong.

Wow.

I just hope you're able to keep any vulnerable women from him now it's all out in the open.

I feel sorry the cleaner who's lost her job after being harassed and molested, she was very brave to speak up. I hope the cleaning company didn't dismiss her for losing the contract.

It seems like you and her have born the weight of this whole situation.

You seem like a really lovely person though, I hope this works out for you.

Ask anyone in care/nursing this is VERY VERY common .

Have a chat with the career and ask there views

Judgement , appropriateness and awareness are all commons signs wouldn't be to quick to wright him off as a dirty old man and some of the people on her are .

I feel like I've been fobbed off and that they're not going to do anything unless his behaviour escalates. Well, I suppose if speaking to him enables him to regulate his behaviour, it doesn't benefit him to undergo investigations as to why especially if it would make no difference to treatment.

You're expecting it to make no difference. Start keeping a diary, so you can go back with dates and times to show that his behaviour is the same or deteriorating. And of course request those blood tests.

Try if you can to separate this behaviour from the person. The "kind loving and doting Dad" is who he is. It's the stroke/brain damage/green goblin residing in his brain who is the sexual harasser.

Ultimately we gave up and concluded that what she actually wanted was an excuse to complain. I can see that makes sense. She's not happy with her life, she may not even know why, or it may be something unchangeable like the generally crapness of watching your body fall to bits as you age. So she needs something tangible to complain about, to express her feelings. In the same way as it seems silly to by raging at an insentient virus, so people rage instead at the government, or the petty infringements of their neighbours.

i don't know what to say.... but I can see how that is a difficult response to digest!! hugs..

I've tried over the years since his stroke to get my dad interested in a hobby or group activity but he's just not into it. His work was his life and he was never interested in anything else. I'd tell him that it'd be good for him to get out there and engage with people and he'd agree and then expect me to do all the legwork to find him something to do but anything I suggested - golf, local clubs, computer literacy classes, University of the 3rd Age etc was turned down for whatever reason.

My mother was just like this. When I look back at the long list of things we tried and she rejected, it really is quite depressing. Some of her excuses were ridiculous - for instance, we arranged for the library to deliver books to her, she was really unpleasant to the unfortunate person who did the deliveries because she claimed it was all books she had read or were no good. When I challenged her about what happened in one of the ones she said she'd read, she couldn't answer. And all the time she was complaining how bored she was. A few times I pointed out to her that she wouldn't be bored if she'd just try some of the countless activities she'd been offered, but she just brushed it off. Ultimately we gave up and concluded that what she actually wanted was an excuse to complain.

Also, if he has a reasonable amount of insight you may just be able to ban him from speaking about certain topics- he won't necessarily understand why, and may think you are being silly, but just explain what the rules are (no touching whatsoever, no remarks about bodies or sex) and go from there, some patients could remember these rules, although when profoundly affected they would not be able to, so it varies from person to person.

This is a very hidden side of brain issues that people often don't expect, but if you google personality changes and stroke, you will see you are not alone.

I'm glad you have got more information and had that difficult conversation with your father.

Some of the posts earlier seem to be quite muddled and not understand that you don't have to have diagnosed dementia to be sexually or socially inappropriate- as later posters have said, this is common with frontal lobe brain injury, which can happen through illnesses such as tumours, accidents, strokes, as well as dementia.

It is very very difficult to deal with the personality changes and the inappropriate behaviour of someone in this situation, and easy to blame them. There is also the ingrained attitude towards women. I believe your dad when he says he's being friendly in his own mind- unfortunately this constitutes sexual harassment to others. His lack of insight into what he's done and what is 'normal' is also very typical of frontal lobe injury, if you read about it you would see your dad is probably a very typical case in terms of disinhibition, not understanding social norms and lack of insight (feeling they are fine and it is others that are wrong). I also note he's a bit paranoid, which again is quite typical.

I was lucky with my relative with an extensive brain tumour, he was not sexually inappropriate thank goodness as it could have turned into a safeguarding issue, but he was very socially inappropriate, too friendly, and would be practically dragging people off the neighbourhood roads to have a drink with him and wouldn't read the social cues that people didn't want to. He became overly friendly. It was stressful but luckily the people around us were very understanding.

Try to see that his depressed, disinhibited personality IS the result of his stroke- and read a bit about how stroke can change personalities and behaviours, it may make you feel better.

This does not change the fact that this is unacceptable to those who work with him- and that they need to know about his medical conditions, that he's likely to be inappropriate and then manage that as part of their care- the cleaners can perhaps come when the carers are there as well.

OP, I hope your father gets the help that he needs. Unfortunately, you may have a fight on your hands to get a proper diagnosis. We did. But social services were great and they helped fight our corner.

I understand your pain and confusion OP. My mother has dementia. A recent brain scan didn't show anything but she has a diagnosis of alzheimers. With her the issue is racism. This is a woman who used to call out people for racist comments. Made doubly difficult because both my DS have non british partners.

OP, sorry that you're going through this. Vascular dementia may be of interest to you, the stroke association has some very well written information on it www.stroke.org.uk/effects-of-stroke/vascular-dementia