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Elderly parents
Original poster

Massive change in my DM :(

62 replies

Longdistance · 26/02/2021 20:48

I wonder if someone has had a similar experience with their elderly parent? DM is going to be 80 next month and she has changed beyond anything I recognise. I'll try to condense it as much as I can.
My db lives with dm and is her carer. He does an amazing job with her, all the care, cooking, cleaning, admin, appointments, even cuts and dyes her hair for her.
About three weeks ago DM was saying strange things, like she could see spiders and spiders webs (not the case as the house is spotless) and that she seen someone pulling up plants in the front garden (again not the case as there are a few plants, but they're all there).
So, cue to last week during half term on the Monday, I get a phone call from my db about DM is acting strange and she's been shouting 'help' out of the window. She then proceeds to call the police (they got and interpreter on the phone as my dm keeps flitting between English and her language) and they turned up. I spoke with them over then phone and as I was going over to take her to the hospital for an appointment in the afternoon anyway, I said I'd come over. I spoke with the police and they were lovely and I showed them some documentation to prove DM didn't own a property she keeps going on about. This house was my uncles but db inherited it. It washy uncles but we all lived there at some point in the 70's. Df bought the family home dm lives in and owns now.

I took her to the hospital appointment that afternoon, she was quite quiet, so we carried on until she got to see the doctor. The doctor asked if she was well in herself and she said she was. I was behind her shaking my head and so the tirade started and she started to talk in her own language getting mixed up. The consultant was concerned as he knows her and her behaviour was erratic. He asked me why she was like that and I said she'd been like it for about 10 days or so.
Tuesday - She declared she was on hunger strike. Then she started attacking my db, pinching his arm, shaking him, punching his back and swearing at him, gelling him she wished she'd aborted him. I told my db to call an ambulance. It came and they and took her to A&E. I followed as she was violent against db so safer I went. I found her in a side room and sat with her. I didn't engage with her and sat looking at my phone. She was quiet, but again went into a tirade with the doctor. I let her do it so the doctor could see what she was like. They admitted her that night. They did a CT scan of her head and an MRI scan of her head too whilst she was in, but nothing has shown up.
We had a call from the psychiatric nurse and she was going to confer with the psychiatric doctor who would also see her.
We had calls from OT and then they were going down the safeguarding route (no concerns on that front). Talking about two houses.
the scans came back with no concerns.
Dm has now been sent home and she is still talking rubbish, moving between English and her language. Getting confused, argumentative and paranoid.
Does anyone have any experience of this? What could it be? If she doesn't have dementia or Alzheimers, what else could it be? She has been given Mirtazapine, but this hasn't calmed her down.
In the mean time I have told db to not engage in conversation with her and to keep things basic, like asking if she wants something to eat and drink.
Thanks for reading if you have got this far x

OP posts:
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RaspberryCoulis · 08/03/2021 08:42

@Longdistance

Well, I thought I’d come back to update, the hospital set up for dm to have careers come four times a day. Dm has now said it’s too much and only needs them in the morning and evening. She has had her moments when she’s calm and sweetness and light. Today my db went out as dm wanted a few bits but didn’t want to leave. She rang the police declaring she was locked in the house. She wasn’t at all. They were lovely and they came back later to register her as an elderly person with dementia. We haven’t had a diagnosis. She did have a test via Zoom, but she remembered everything. She was given tablets for delirium, but we’re no closer to a proper diagnosis.
Oh OP so much of what you are saying is ringing bells with me and the situation we're in with my Dad. He's not quite as severe as your Mum by the sounds of it but I really feel your frustration. A few weeks ago my mum rang me in a panic because Dad was refusing to get out of bed and was loudly declaring that he was dying. (He clearly wasn't because a few hours later he decided to get up and have lunch). He is on a whole host of tablets for various conditions and when mum prompts him to take them, he questions whether she's poisoning him. He is regularly confused over ownership issues - who owns the house, how long have they owned the house, when did they sell the last house... it's very wearing for mum.

The NHS has been utterly shit through the whole thing, he had a MRI fairly early on which didn't detect anything, but nobody will actually SEE him. He was due to see a consultant a year ago, but it was postponed because of Covid and never happened. Everything is done over the phone and it's just no good at all. Dad's never had a diagnosis either although it's clear to everyone that it's some sort of dementia, and it's getting worse.

No real advice other than to keep making a nuisance of yourself with the GP and elderly care team - you're not alone in this.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 08/03/2021 08:33

Also you cannot at one and the same time say a person should make an LPA and also be detained under the MHA.

In order to make an LPA you need to have capacity to understand what you are doing which is not really a compatible scenario with getting 'sectioned'

I would very much doubt she has capacity to make an LPA currently whilst expressing paranoid beliefs about her main carer. If she recovers from the delirium it would be a good idea to suggest it.

SpecialToffee · 08/03/2021 08:29

Sounds a bit similar to my Mum. She had normal pressure hydrocephalus but it was missed on her first scan. Rapid deterioration. By the time they spotted it she was beyond treatment.

Apart from possible dementia, the other things they mentioned were electrolyte imbalance and constipation, both of which can cause confusion. Has she been checked for those? (Presumably the electrolytes were checked when they did the blood test?).

muddyford · 08/03/2021 08:25

This is a far too rapid deterioration to be dementia. It could be an infection or metabolic disorder, diabetes or a reaction to medication.

HelloThereMeHearties · 08/03/2021 08:24

Anyway OP, as I keep saying - have you and/or your brother got a Lasting Power of Attorney for your DM? If not, do that ASAP, if you can get her to agree.

HelloThereMeHearties · 08/03/2021 08:22

Oops, wrong quote.

HelloThereMeHearties · 08/03/2021 08:21

@blitzen

This sounds like vascular dementia to me, and if UTI/infection has been ruled out then it does sound more like some kind of dementia. So sorry for your mum, OP. X
So your DM was sectioned, as were two of my relations. Simply explaining that that happens is not scaremongering,. In fact, sectioning was the best thing that could happen for them. It got them proper care.
HelloThereMeHearties · 08/03/2021 08:20

@blitzen

This sounds like vascular dementia to me, and if UTI/infection has been ruled out then it does sound more like some kind of dementia. So sorry for your mum, OP. X
I agree, and I was going to ask if your DM has diabetes?
blitzen · 07/03/2021 22:55

This sounds like vascular dementia to me, and if UTI/infection has been ruled out then it does sound more like some kind of dementia. So sorry for your mum, OP. X

OnthePiste · 07/03/2021 22:17

@HelloThereMeHearties

Well I'm not a medical expert but it sounds like dementia to me. Cast your mind back - had she been behaving a little strangely for a while, now you come to think of it? Can your DB remember any small oddnesses?

I've seen someone with dementia pass one of those stupid tests. Don't rely on them!

Have you got Adult Mental Health involved. You also need a referral by your GP to a psychiatrist.

If I'm going to be honest with you, then I only see this going one way - your DM can no longer be looked after at home. As her behaviour becomes increasingly erratic and she puts herself in harm's way (which she will), she will need to be sectioned. She will go in under Section 2, which lasts for 28 days. After that, if it's clear she has no insight to her condition, they will keep her in under Section 3. After that point, the council have a legal responsibility to house her in suitable accommodation.

Sorry to be so blunt, but she is obviously deteriorating rapidly so you need to be prepared.

Sorry but this is absolutely not what will happen! As PP says, people with dementia rarely get sectioned. Even if they do, like my DM did last year, social services will do their best to get them home with a care package which is what happened to my DM.

Your advice is not helpful at all and certainly not what is normal. Yes this can happen but dementia can also easily be managed at home with the right medication and help. Dementia does not progress rapidly as a rule, delirium does.

Zandathepanda · 07/03/2021 22:13

Yes to you need to get a lasting power of Attorney ASAP.

HelloThereMeHearties · 07/03/2021 21:52

Well I've seen it happen to two people, who both started by having confabulations similar to the OP's mother, and who then went on to display risky behaviour and put themselves in danger. And, yes, I was told along the way by medical professionals that they weren't that serious, and were safe to be at home. Until they weren't.

And people often think that their relations' dementia came on quickly, until they start casting their minds back. I bet the OP's DM was behaving oddly over the last few months, now they come to think of it.

But anyway, the important thing is to get an LPA, if you can OP.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 07/03/2021 21:47

HelloThere I am a medic and that is scaremongering

Very very few people with dementia ever get detained under MHA. OP has not mentioned any risks sufficient to suggest such a course of action. Detention under MHA is a last resort matter.

OP said she deteriorated rapidly which goes against dementia which is a slow deterioration and for delirium which means she may recover and stop behaving oddly soon. She might have an underlying dementia but if this really was a sudden deterioration there is a good chance of recovery.

Candleabra · 07/03/2021 21:41

This sounds so hard for you.
Nothing to add except that I hope you manage to gets some answers.

HelloThereMeHearties · 07/03/2021 21:35

Actually, and this is massively important - have you or your DB got a Power of Attorney for her, an LPA?

If not, get one now, before she's diagnosed, if it's possible. This will save you ENORMOUS hassle in the future.

HelloThereMeHearties · 07/03/2021 21:27

Well I'm not a medical expert but it sounds like dementia to me. Cast your mind back - had she been behaving a little strangely for a while, now you come to think of it? Can your DB remember any small oddnesses?

I've seen someone with dementia pass one of those stupid tests. Don't rely on them!

Have you got Adult Mental Health involved. You also need a referral by your GP to a psychiatrist.

If I'm going to be honest with you, then I only see this going one way - your DM can no longer be looked after at home. As her behaviour becomes increasingly erratic and she puts herself in harm's way (which she will), she will need to be sectioned. She will go in under Section 2, which lasts for 28 days. After that, if it's clear she has no insight to her condition, they will keep her in under Section 3. After that point, the council have a legal responsibility to house her in suitable accommodation.

Sorry to be so blunt, but she is obviously deteriorating rapidly so you need to be prepared.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 07/03/2021 21:26

What do you mean by a proper diagnosis? Delirium is a diagnosis and you say she is being treated for it. You cannot diagnose dementia properly whilst someone is delirious as they may yet recover.

If you mean a cause for the delirium you may not find out. It may have been and gone. Delirium does persist often for many weeks after the cause is resolved. I think you said she was treated for a kidney infection which would certainly be a common cause of delirium

Hard as it is you may need to wait it out to see if it's getting better (delirium) or staying the same or worse in which case maybe dementia. If she's got some medication and a care package then it's hard to know what more could be done. If they didn't find an underlying cause after 2 hospital admissions then probably they are not going to find one I am afraid.

Is she open to a mental health team for support for her and the family ie does she have a CPN?

OnthePiste · 07/03/2021 21:24

@Longdistance

Well, I thought I’d come back to update, the hospital set up for dm to have careers come four times a day. Dm has now said it’s too much and only needs them in the morning and evening. She has had her moments when she’s calm and sweetness and light. Today my db went out as dm wanted a few bits but didn’t want to leave. She rang the police declaring she was locked in the house. She wasn’t at all. They were lovely and they came back later to register her as an elderly person with dementia. We haven’t had a diagnosis. She did have a test via Zoom, but she remembered everything. She was given tablets for delirium, but we’re no closer to a proper diagnosis.
Have the hospital referred her to the Older people's mental health services? She needs to be if not so that she is in the system and can be assessed by the memory clinic or a psychiatrist.

My mum has done the same in ringing the police to tell them she is locked in. She can also pass the memory tests easily but has a diagnosis of Alzheimer's (which maybe about to change as they are not sure if it might be a different type). It does sound very much like your mum could have a form of dementia.

Original poster
Longdistance · 07/03/2021 21:14

Well, I thought I’d come back to update, the hospital set up for dm to have careers come four times a day. Dm has now said it’s too much and only needs them in the morning and evening. She has had her moments when she’s calm and sweetness and light.
Today my db went out as dm wanted a few bits but didn’t want to leave. She rang the police declaring she was locked in the house. She wasn’t at all. They were lovely and they came back later to register her as an elderly person with dementia. We haven’t had a diagnosis. She did have a test via Zoom, but she remembered everything. She was given tablets for delirium, but we’re no closer to a proper diagnosis.

OP posts:
CovoidOfAllHumanity · 03/03/2021 00:19

Ask that they get her seen by liaison psychiatry whilst she is in hospital as it would appear no medical cause has been found despite lots of tests done. There's probably limited value in doing a whole lot more tests. She needs a mental health opinion.

Original poster
Longdistance · 02/03/2021 10:32

Thanks @OnthePiste I got the call from the hospital to rehash for the third time the set up in the house. She has the bed downstairs as she can’t manage the stairs. The bathroom is downstairs, there are assist handles in it and has a walk in shower cubicle.
They asked if we’d be happy to have her discharged, I said no as we’ve not been given a formal diagnosis of what’s wrong with her.
Worried about her safety, mainly wandering off and having a fall.

OP posts:
OnthePiste · 02/03/2021 09:42

@Longdistance

My dm has been taken to hospital again as she was call anxious and screaming for help. She attacked my poor db again 😔 He’s going to amble up to the hospital in a bit and sit with her. If things kick off I might need to go up. I’ve told my db they need to do more tests and give a definitive answer to why she’s behaving this way.
You might find that they have to section her to really find out what is going on. Do not be alarmed if this is the case, it is actually a blessing as she would be in a safe environment surrounded by medics who can observe her and daignose what is causing this behaviour.

I agree that you both should not agree to her being discharged back home at the moment without some kind of diagnosis or medication. There is clearly something wrong here. Wishing you both well.

Zandathepanda · 02/03/2021 09:07

My relative acted like this and was diagnosed with vascular dementia but it was seen on the CT scan. Maybe ask for someone to have another look at the MRI and CT scan. Impressed she managed an MRI scan. Hope it can be sorted easily if it was such a sudden onset.
Flowers for you and your family.

Original poster
Longdistance · 02/03/2021 08:53

My dm has been taken to hospital again as she was call anxious and screaming for help. She attacked my poor db again 😔
He’s going to amble up to the hospital in a bit and sit with her. If things kick off I might need to go up.

I’ve told my db they need to do more tests and give a definitive answer to why she’s behaving this way.

OP posts:
NewspaperTaxis · 02/03/2021 00:12

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