Power of attorney while parents are well?

Former bank employee. Good luck to your sister trying to access your parents bank account with a hand written note from your mum. We have POA for my mum which is not required just yet. It was signed by her years ago. It is for me and my sibling and for both financial and health affairs. At the moment I have a separate mandate on my mum's account which allows me to sign cheques, set up and cancel direct debits along with a debit card. It has been invaluable. I also have a card for her PO account. This was all authorised by my mum.
If nothing is done and your parents are no longer fit to run their financial affairs maybe due to dementia then it will be too late for a POA as they will be considered incompetent to sign one. The the Office of Care and Protection will take over their finances. You do not want this to happen believe you me.

Do it now ASAP simple

Having had a year of dealing with a relative's rapid decline with Alzheimer's who thankfully set me up with LPA 10 years ago, I decided to convince my 90 year old dm to do the same. Heartily agree with everyone else - get it done NOW! I've done it all myself from GOV.UK website, cost £80 per LPA, the most trickiest part was finding a non-relative to witness my mum's signature! All friends dead or not able to understand. Luckily we found a willing neighbour.

it needs to be a proper signatory managing assets thing - which of course only come into play when they are without capacity - never before. It can be written so it can be used when they still have capacity. My father used to manage his everyday spending and his charity giving, I managed his savings.

We have recently retired and moved house.
We updated our wills. The solicitor advised us to prepare new wills because something in the old ones was did not apply any more.
The new ones are so much clearer and use simple modern English.

We were advised also to do LPAs for both finance and health and welfare.
So we act for each other and the children can act for us. Jointly and severally is the phrase, does not need joint action.
We can now relax knowing we have done all we can. Now to spend what we can!!

Well just one more to say LPA and the health and welfare one is such a good thing. DH & I have done one for our DS and we are fit and healthy. There is no way IMHO that just having access to Parent's bank accounts works - it needs to be a proper signatory managing assets thing - which of course only come into play when they are without capacity - never before. & OP you can tell your sister -you can only spend money via LPA / POA if it is for the benefit of the person - I also agree with the person who posted above - without a health and welfare POA , being next of kin counts for almost nothing. My husband found this out for his father to their cost. Social services & hospital step in and will make decisions.

Yes do it now. We have one for my Mum but will only use it once necessary. My husband's family didn't have one for their mother and it made life extremely difficult.

Sort it out ASAP. If it's not in place at the point of incapacity you have to apply to the court of protection and it's very intrusive and very expensive

Google my Mumsnet name on this issue and there's plenty of a cautionary tale about what to learn if you don't have LPA in Health and Welfare. Without it you are not the decision maker for your parent's care. Various people are - hospital consultants, social workers - but it will never be you. And all save money from your parents' demise.

Care home infected by Covid-19? Want to move Mum back to the family home pronto? Social services can prevent that. Especially if you're self-funding - you're subsidising the council-funded residents to the tune of several hundred a week.

If they later die, too bad. You won't have a legal case.

BTW losing mental capacity needn't mean they're gaga. I never expected my mother to lose mental capacity could never envisage it and she never really did. She knew who she was, where she was, who we were right to the end. She got it. That said, years before that, she was technically down as not having mental capacity. Truthfully, she didn't speak much at all and could hardly, say, walk into a bank and open an account, for instance! But don't imagine she was dead to us and some kind of breathing baggage. She liked good food and music et al.

On her medical notes we later learned she had 'extreme dementia'. She had nothing of a sort, but we couldn't see that to contradict it. Why? Because we didn't know to get LPA in Health and Welfare. We had it in Finance for some reason, but not H&W. Without it, you are not entitled to read your parent's medical notes. The care home could have her on the chemical cosh and they wouldn't have to tell you.

The powers that be say that what is put in writing is true, and if it's not put in writing it never happened. They can also bitch about you on you're parent's notes which again you can't see if you didn't get LPA in Health and Welfare. It's a toxic scenario and once you're in it you can't get out until the end comes.

Can I echo CMOT’s advice about talking about funerals.

My DF died suddenly last month at home and we had to arrange for an undertaker to take him away. I phoned the first one I could think of who duly came and took his body only to find the next day when looking for paperwork that he had a funeral plan insurance policy and the nominated undertaker was not the one I’d phoned.
I managed to sort it all out thankfully but it was extra stress I could have done without.

I'd encourage everyone to get POA for health/welfare and financial at the earliest possible stage.
Just uttering the magic words of 'I have POA' made things so much easier lots of times over the last 10 years when dealing with hospital, HCPs and social services. Then when my dad died (suddenly, though not altogether unexpectedly) I was able to get control of mums bank account within a week so I was set up to sort care home fees etc and all the things on the house that weren't direct debit, get her mail redirected to me - and of course get her into a home (she had severe dementia) and make decisions on her behalf right to the end.

I'd also really encourage people to give you at least a rough idea about funerals (first phone call with the funeral directors they asked about burial or cremation, and even knowing which funeral directors to call was such a blessing), and also an advance care directive. Saying that they should have a DNR for mum, and then comfort measures only was the hardest thing I've ever done, but I was secure in knowing it was dads wish for her

user sorry for all of your experiences and how bloody brilliant you had it sorted.

Partic moved by your mum because we sometimes forget in all the spotlight on the user of the poa, that the subject of them can be enormously comforted knowing someone is fighting their corner or sorting stuff out.

Heck my lovely old ma dropped down dead out of the blue fit as a fiddle up till then so we never had to use either poa but she loved that they were in place, for herself, and also for us. She knew it would make things easier all round if need be.

Most PP have spoken about finance PoA but Health and Welfare is the one I've ended up using so far.

Mum had cared for various elderly relatives herself so got PoA sorted in good time. She always dreaded losing her marbles but in fact they were the one darn thing that kept working! Except for when she got an infection - low oxygen to the brain + a UTI and all of a sudden that sharp brain just .. couldn't... and she was in hospital, nobody was giving us a clear story as to what was going on, and she was not happy.
The H&W PoA meant I could go into bat for her, armed with notebook, pen and polite persistence. I think just knowing she had someone who could and would legitimately stand up for her relieved her no end.

It was also bloody handy when my step Dad had a nervous breakdown and follow-on heart trouble from the upset of her illness - I could go in to the GP with him and go, "Look PoA, not just a bossy SD with no boundaries honest".

Also during her final illness it meant the medics would talk to us, which, given that her illness made her forgetful and once or twice (UTI!) delerious.

Mum's gone now but I still have PoA for StepDad and an auntie & uncle. My OH and I were first to set ours up though, in our late 40s - circumstances bore it in on us that we are ALL just one nasty fall, one RTA, one stroke, one brain tumour, one nasty infection away from not being able to handle our own affairs.

He's been talking about updating his will recently Heron, so knowing him, probably be in about five years time It's just me, I'm in my 40's and hadn't thought of doing it myself, though I don't think it would make any difference. He wouldn't see a connection. And he's used to his word being the last word

LoveMySituation Ask around your neighbours, friends and very soon you’ll hear some really sad tales of parents who didn’t apply in time and families who were left in financial frustration waiting for guardianship to come through . Then just give him the facts of how it can go pear shaped naming names and instances. Only after my DM was sectioned when my DF took ill and my DF was lying immobile in another hospital did the penny drop that we needed it. Three days after leaving hospital he fell changing the smoke alarm in the upstairs landing . He died three days after that but it was too late. At least six sets of people I know arranged it when they saw how expensive and needless our task became through cussed avoidance ...

My parents were proactive about this and it is such a comfort. I’ve even been brought in to set up signature cards at their bank and to meet their financial advisor and attorney. That was a bit of overkill, but all it cost me was a couple of hours. My mother has passed, so now it is even more important that my dad has everything organized in case I need to step in to help him.

Once you need one its too late to get one.
If you have one and never need to use it them thats fine but if you need one and havent got one you are screwed.
My Dm and sdad got them 2 years ago and while they are both still fine I am not sure sdad would get one now.
Look for Mumblechum on here or Marlow Wills, shes fab and sorted them out for us remotely

lovemysitiation that is tough. I had both sides - dad with some dementia and refusing to update a decades old will which didn’t even mention his second wife. Mum who wanted everything shipshape when still compis mentis.
Would it help for him to see you (and your dp/dh/dw whatever or just you) doing it ? I honestly think everyone should do it at as early
An age as makes sense partic in these Covid days. Might make him feel less ‘targeted’.
Has he done a will which protects 16 year old ? Or is that another step too far ? He might not realise that poa can only be used or kick in when there is medical agreement that they have lost capacity to make those decisions themselves so as long as he is hale and hearty it isnt relevant.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can persuade my father to give me POA? He's in his 70's, I am already concerned about his memory, plus he has his 16 year old grandson living with him, so it's even more important to sort it out. But he refuses, and either ignores any attempt to talk, or says that he will know when his memory is going, and will do it then. I've tried to tell him it's too late then, but he doesn't care. Doesn't even care that it will make things harder for me. So frustrating

Doing the PofAs yourself is very possible - I did ours myself. You just need to be systematic about it as the forms need signing in the right date order. I drew a flow diagram and it worked well.

You can also apply for a reduction on the fee for registering - the financial conditions for a reduction are very generous. We were both working when we did them but still got a substantial reduction.

I used to work as a SW in hospitals with elderly and disabled people and used to heave a huge sigh of a relief when there was a relative with a PofA as finding the best care for the person could proceed quickly and efficiently.

The PofA for decisions about health and welfare is also very important. I was PofA for my OH with our AC also named. When it came to deciding about heroic invasive interventions or a peaceful death I was able to work together with my AC to help the right and merciful decisions to be made for him.

Don’t listen to your sister.
Get the ball rolling ASAP. My DH’s parents have just updated their wills and done the POA. Even though they are still fit and healthy for 80yr+ olds. It took a few months for everything to go through during this pandemic and my MIL was constantly stressing about them catching Covid before all the paperwork was finalised.

I really don’t understand why your sister is so blasé about it all.

Indeed a ‘note to the bank’ will be rejected out of hand. I had to register the poa with my ma’s bank during a short appointment where I took the original poa and identification and signed a bank form etc. Short appointment. All sorted in case of need. And with no delay having to register myself as her poa with the bank when/if the time came to use it.
A ‘Note to the bank’ when there is a proper well known well sused required procedure would just look odd and frankly on the face of it potentially dodgy. (As well as being disregarded out of hand).

Threading this thread, I find myself wondering why your DSis thinks a 'note to the bank' is preferable to using the POA which is designed for the purpose.

Oh and FYI, your siblings do not have to agree, only your parents. You parents can also decide who to nominate and their can be joint nominees too. In cases where it is joint those who are nominated both have to agree on the course of action etc. A good solicitor will be able to explain it all to you.

The POA for health does not need a solicitor in order to be obtained, you can do that yourselves with little fuss. There is a fee but it’s not much.

Yes yes yes get POA for both finances and health.

My MIL has Alzheimer’s, good thinking FIL planned ahead and POA put in place for finances for both himself and DH. Quiet unexpectedly we lost FIL who had been her carer and suddenly the POA became very useful/important indeed, not long after we figured out we would need one for health too so we got that sorted.

There were so many things that we could not have done had the POA not been in place. Most importantly of which, we decided that with MIL having lost FIL it would be far too traumatic for her to be then moved out if the house she’d lived in for 40 years and to be put into a care home. Instead of moving her home we moved in with her so everything stayed the same as much as possible for her, (which with Alzheimer’s is important) and continue her care. The home soon became unsuitable for MIL’s needs (we still didn’t want to put her in a care home) so we put her house up for sale and looked for one in which would meet all her needs and that we could continue to care for her in. None of this would have been possible without the POA in place, because it was in place we managed to care for her at home until she passed away, and she passed away surround by familiar things loved ones/family. Given the recent and ongoing pandemic I can’t even imagine to contemplate how we would have felt had she been in a care home and unable to see her family, and for us to her.

Health is important too, because under circumstances where the person with reduced mental capacity though accident/illness or injury can no longer make their own medical and care decisions, those decisions will be made for them by an adult social care worker. You may not agree, knowing you parent/loved one well you may know that they wouldn’t want a certain medical treatment or a certain level/type of care. Without this POA for health you can be powerless to made decisions in line with what you know your loved one would want. This can be particularly important for certain types of ongoing care and for end of life care.

So whether you anticipate needing or not, get it done and in place. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it!