The Cockroach Cafe Mark 2 (general coping with oldies)

yolo I’m so sorry you’re having this experience.

With the junk mail, I registered with these people

www.thebereavementregister.org.uk/

It definitely helped.

sandwich glad that cage thing helped you. Obvs it doesn’t apply to me but I’ll think of something.

sinister that sounds so tough- agree with everyone, step back, get her out and let her get on with it.🌺
yolo that’s so rubbish about BT!
mere I LOVE your metaphor about cleaning daughters pet rat cage..... I held onto that thought whilst spending most of the day with dm...... thank you! Made dealing with milk money/ newspapers etc sooo much easier.... 🌺🌺🌺

Sinister that's horrible and you have my sympathies. Getting weird about money goes with the territory I'm afraid. My DM made the same comments sometimes and she had always been the most generous person alive.

I think it comes out of their sense of powerlessness, they are very frightened of being at someone's mercy.

You'd be much better in separate homes if you can manage it.

💐

Sinister Probably all for the good. Once you can get that emotional detachment, things improve. I'm struck by you saying "’I'm fed up of trying to prove myself worthy to her." Once you've got away from the emotional pressure of trying to get her approval, and are simply looking at her wellbeing, in same way as you might clean out the cage of your daughter's pet rat, it is easier.

“ I hope we can get her into her own home. ”

Hope so, ASAP.

I don’t have much of a bosom to hook but I’ll work with what I’ve got.

Thanks Autumn. I’m going to pull back and leave her to deal with it all. It will probably go tits up because she just refuses to deal with things she doesn’t like or understand, like my stepdads funeral for example which she left to me entirely. I just need her to go ASAP. She wanted to leave tonight but her brother said there wasn’t the space. I hope we can get her into her own home. Things will get forgotten and create debts, like with my dad no doubt, but fuck it. I really need to look after my DH, DS and my DSS now.

Sinister shit. I’m so sorry. I’d leave her to it as well. Appalling. Sorry, I sound like I’m hoiking my bosom indignantly - but I am!

It basically exploded in the house tonight. She shouted and swore and stamped her feet, accused us of only helping her to get her money, I shouted back, so did DS. Basically have decided to take a step back as much as we can and leave it to her. I can’t be fucked anymore. She has never trusted me and I’m fed up of trying to prove myself worthy to her. If she fails at it all she fails. I have my own family to concentrate on now.

sandwich hope the health niggles get sorted. Glad things are better

autumn thanks for asking- I’m ok, dealing with some health niggles but generally ok. Dm more mobile but complaining more..... I have reduced number of visits to every two- three days. And leave her to sort things- complaining about the gardener, I did find an alternative, but then her cleaner has recommended one- so I’m leaving her to it....
Fortunate to have some wonderful friends- and support here! 🌺🌺 all!

Mere I've never been someone who has any sympathy for learned helplessness. Really? I would never have guessed

I think yolo's right. Don't do it for her, do it for you.

Mere I've never been someone who has any sympathy for learned helplessness.

However, I think there's a particular resentment here because both dad and I really tried to get mum to grow up. One of the only reasons she learned to use a cash machine was because I was in a serious accident and dad pointed out that if he wasn't here and she needed to get to me quickly and didn't have money, what would she do etc. That was about 6 years ago.

both my parents have been hospitalised many times and dad could keep the house running smoothly but when he was in the hospital, he was asking me, in a worried way, if bills had been paid etc. It was wrong of her, she knows it now, but that's why I am in no way praising her for learning.

If you asked her how she'd support me she'd say "I'd do anything for my daughter! I will always look after her!" and she'd say the same for my dad. So, time for deeds not words.

The learned helplessness Easy thing to get into. There's a job you don't much like doing, but your partner doesn't mind, so you leave him to it, and without realising you get out of touch with it and it begins to be a scary problem should you have to start doing it again. Add to that the natural increasing cautiousness of old age... You can avoid it only by perpetually challenging yourself to do new things, and there comes a time in life where you don't want to start challenging yourself. Life's hard work.

autumn Apply the standard parental technique "If you're bored, you can [insert most unattractive chore that currently needs doing]" Or if you're feeling cruel: "I always think that boredom is the sign of a dull mind. Intelligent people always find ways of amusing themselves"

yolo yes I remember you worked very hard.

The old "give them an inch" thing is so true of some isn't it.

full fact fairness - message from mum who topped up her mobile and apologises for being a pain.

Sinister that sounds very familiar. I am sorry your mum says those things though. Mine doesn't - she has the grace to be quite ashamed because dad used to ask her for help with things like banking and she said no.

two things I always remember - one was she came round to my flat when I was doing a full time job and evening study, and told me off for not putting the mop away. I yelled at her (vanishingly rare for me to do this) because she's never had to do anything for herself in her life.

Another time, she grumbled because dad - who worked long hours - had asked her to go to the bank and sort some kind of error on their joint account as he had no way of getting out of work at lunchtime.

I pointed out again how privileged she was, quite angrily.

I don't mind just saying "well done" if she sorts something but that's as far as I'm prepared to go. I know for example, that she is bored with her TV, that she wants a DVD player, that she wants to connect the TV online etc etc.

but these will all end up being jobs for me and she will then still moan that she is bored.

I was posting under a different name when dad died, so this might confuse some, but I can't believe I ever thought of moving in! I would have lost my mind.

I am not a natural fixer

sandwich how are you?

yolo and dint have explained beautifully what I was trying to say- but I totally get what you mean. The church lady idea sounds ideal.
dint your dad sounds awesome. He’s certainly lived life fully.
yolo is it as rose says the charity thing? Sounds like a good plan. Create a void.

Hard to do when we are natural fixers......

The learned helplessness sounds like my Mum, my step dad used to do everything, the driving, the cooking, the admin. Now he’s dead it’s all passed to me, which was not my intention, she just didn’t do anything. She now blames my stepdad for the way she is saying he was controlling, which I know is absolute bollocks because she’s said to other people that I am controlling! But if I try and get her to do any of her own stuff she will say she got confused and couldn’t do it. However she absolutely refuses to give me POA. I really don’t know how people convince their parents to give them POA, my dad wouldn’t either and now he’s at a stage where witnesses make it impossible (he lives in a care home, doesn’t see anyone else outside, GP refuses to be a witness).

My Mum does have memory loss, so I don’t know if this helplessness is now part of that. Her personality has not changed so much as got worse, the anxiety, moodiness, selfishness was all there before but in much smaller doses. If I mention about her having asked a question before she will snap “I can’t remember everything.” We have been renovating her house and she was complaining about not being involved enough, so we took her over there yesterday and set her to work doing some cleaning. After a couple of hours she started complaining that she was bored so I had to call my Uncle who took her for a coffee and kept her away for a good few hours to give us some space. But it was like dealing with a sulky teenager. Me and DH are no longer doing her house up out of the goodness of hearts, but to get her out of our house!

Mere, I’m well impressed your dad was caving at that age, he must have been very fit.

Yolo, is that your charity friend? She’s pushed you quite a bit if I recall correctly?

Re being the parent - no. The child I never wanted to have. I used to have nightmares about getting pregnant and finding out too late to abort.

I will step back more. It’s one thing to look after a parent who is ill, but a parent who just wants to behave like a child, no way.

An elderly lady in mum’s road used to have a helper come in from the church for paperwork and stuff. I will tell mum I’ll look into that and I bet it was galvanise her to sort her own stuff. If not, we get help in.

That phrase, your parents ruin the first half of your life and your children ruin the second...obviously I have no children and I’m not letting my parents ruin the second half!

Ami right in thinking your father was quite old at the point he started to think like this? I suppose he was! It's developed over the last 5 -10 years and he is now 97. But I wasn't really thinking of him as old when it started - I took him caving in his mid 80s, and he was still taking part in community groups, and doing DIY in his house. So your question gave me a bit of jolt

I think your mum may be a mistake of learned helplessness from always having someone else to do things with her, combined with the lessening confidence and ability to make decisions which is a known feature of increasing age. You may not want to praise an adult, but you've now reached the stage in the relationship where you ae now the parent. So encourage her to do stuff for herself, be firm but kind, and remind her that it's important to keep doing things and learning new things else her mental faculties will decline more rapidly.