The Cockroach Cafe Mark 2 (general coping with oldies)

Mascarpone “ As far as I know, they might simply discharge people who have no means of family or other support at all?”

Yes and it can be complicated when the patient tells them “I have support” which is sounds like your dad might do. If he tells them that, and seems capable of getting home and letting himself in with keys...they’ll just send him off. So best to anticipate this before it happens.

Sadly it happens even when people have no support. Dad sent me round the hospital looking for a social worker one day because the man in the opposite bed was crying when they said they were discharging him and said he had no help at all. I found one and it got sorted in that they said they put a care package in place, hopefully they were telling the truth!

Thank you. I think gp will talk to me if I phone - my father signed some forms which give me permission to speak to the practice on his behalf.

Last time he was in hospital I thought they’d arrange the 6 week re-enablement package (as he lives on his own). But, nothing. Don’t know if this was a result of what he may have said to them, or just hospital cuts / incompetence. I never saw a doctor, as i work ft so was not there at ward round time, and no one from the hospital ever contacted me. As far as I know, they might simply discharge people who have no means of family or other support at all?

@Mascarponeandwine Is there a social worker attached to your dad's GP surgery? We have one and she is the one person who I feel actually listens. When they tried to discharge my mum without reablement she called the discharge nurse and told her in no uncertain terms that mum was not to come home without support.

Mascarpone we cross posted before, sorry

I’d contact the GP.

Also, it might be worth contacting Adult Social Care to ask what post op help there might be in his area?

Mascarpone “ I now mostly say “I don’t know” if it’s anything other than straightforward as it’s just not worth my sanity otherwise”

Same here. Unfortunately my mum knows me too well, so there have been some issues where she’s been suspicious and realised I probably can give it a bash. But I figure, if she realises I’m avoiding it to save my sanity, that’s not a bad thing.

He had a pre op for a knee replacement last week. Unexpected - he was there for an outpatient appointment and they tacked it onto this. I’ve drummed it into him - tell the hospital you have no help and live on your own (true). and you might get some post op care. Of course when it comes to it he says to them “I managed last time” and similar. But he didn’t manage on his own, we were there running around getting groceries and ordering aids from Amazon.

Do you think if I phone the gp that would help get him some support? I have filled out the forms to give the gp surgery permission to speak to me. He wouldn’t be unwilling, he’s not even stubborn really, he’s just clueless on how busy our lives our.

It didn’t help that the cancer didn’t show up on my mothers scans. When we questioned this with the registrars they shrugged and said it “must be microscopic spread”, which meant nothing to us (this was in the days before I had a smart phone and google on tap).

The tech world, omg. I’ve realised that my father can’t distinguish between an easy tech issue (how to forward an email) and a difficult specialist problem (fixing drivers or reinstalling a program or operating system). Because to him, it’s all hard! I now mostly say “I don’t know” if it’s anything other than straightforward as it’s just not worth my sanity otherwise. Have never forgotten the sky remotes - he had two remotes but neither changed the volume. I spent ages on trying to sort it, eventually got volume working on the non-sky remote. Cue much moaning and complaining that the sky remote volume didn’t work, on and on, little remarks the next time I visited. I am of course supposed to be an IT help desk mixed with a Sky engineer, just because I was born after 1970. I think it does us both a favour to say “I don’t know”, then he seeks out someone external to fix it where the complicated dynamic doesn’t exist.

Mascarpone "The docs didn’t even spell out that she was dying of cancer, so when her gp said a post mortem wasn’t needed I thought he must be covering something up"

gosh, you poor thing.

in our case, we did know he was ill but there was an MDT team in charge and there was conflict. I suppose it's possible some thought he was dying, some didn't, but they then concluded they ought not to say anything. Who knows?

I did specifically ask them, when he had death rattle, and one doctor said to me crossly "that's not death rattle". Meanwhile, I was apologising to other patients on dad's ward because it was distressing for them to have him in their midst. They were all terribly nice about it, but they were visibly upset.

You say your father is visibly looking inward. I definitely sense this with my mother. She clearly now asks questions out of politeness. I don't quite know how to handle it.

Hi,

Am delurking - reading this thread with interest as I have a father in his late 70’s who is gradually becoming more inward looking and losing the ability to grasp the parts of my life that he doesn’t see (ie how busy and tired I am).

This: Death and the shock of relatives who never believed in death because doctors wouldn't say it - apparently this is quite common?
I experienced this when my mother died many years ago. It was terrifying as we were caring for her at home, and had no idea what to do when her breathing changed - cpr etc. Felt so out of control. The docs didn’t even spell out that she was dying of cancer, so when her gp said a post mortem wasn’t needed I thought he must be covering something up. Now, being older and in the cold light of day it was obvious, but much harder to see when you’re in the thick of it and have no one to help you understand and cope with someone dying at home.

yes yolo that sounds harsh doesn't it

but then compared to the

1. watching patient suffer through treatment knowing it's delaying inevitable

2. watching patient suffer through last resort stuff

3. knowledge that patient is slowly dying although doctors won't say

4. waiting for death

5. waiting for death

6. waiting for death....!

7. Death and the shock of relatives who never believed in death because doctors wouldn't say it - apparently this is quite common?

8. the aftermath

bloody hell, I don't know how anyone gets through it.

at the time I remember thinking, oh well, if it happens to mum, at least I can go home and be alone instead of having to look after another parent.

hairbrush when I was first on here, I felt the same. It’s hard to talk about IRL.

Mere yes, I remember now. The difficulty was that the docs didn’t believe he was dying until 3 days before he actually did, it was mad.

No offence to the docs, who were doing their best.

yolo yes, before my dad died, a friend’s mum, who we thought strong as an ox, died of a heart attack while reading a book in a chair. Terrible shock for my friend but the kind of passing most of us would wish for.

Test

Autumn Were you applying for the fast track end-of-life CHC funding?

Dad is a self funder. He's in a nursing home, so that costs more than a care home, and although he gets a small weekly nursing element which is paid to the home not to him, the nursing home charges him more than a similar care home would. And self funders are charged up to 40% more than Councils are charged. So it seems that people without means are having their care funded, but instead the cost being spread across all taxpayers, or even across all pensioners, a chunk of it is being dumped on self funders (ie any home owner needing care who has outlived their spouse). While people who have been awarded CHC don't just get their nursing care funded (which they should), they also get their living costs funded.

Mere I didn’t know that about CHC. I just remember it being horrendously complex when I thought I was applying for dad, but then again, I was applying for a six week thing so perhaps I’m in a muddle.

My biggest regret about having DC late is that they are likely to be faced with sick / elderly parents while in their 20s or 30s. If you'd had them early they might be dealing with elderly parents when they were in their 70s.

autumn what I was meaning about funding is that if someone is deemed to have unpredictable nursing needs, they get CHC, which pays for all their nursing care and for all their daily care, living costs and food as well, no matter how well off they are. But if they have nursing needs, and are therefore in a nursing home, if the nursing needs aren't unpredictable enough, they have to pay for everything themselves. And that's what happens to most people with dementia.

Reading these posts gives me such a sense of relief that I am not a horrible person for the way I feel but also that I don't have it anywhere near as tough as some you.

Mum and I had a bit of a quarrel yesterday because I mentioned the "C" word and she said that I was selfish for wanting them! I honestly can't face the idea of personal care - as it was she wasn't dressed when I got there - had just started putting her trousers on - and then I realised that she hadn't any underwear on so had to help her with that, pulled up her trousers then she wanted me to take everything down and put a pad on her knickers! If she had a carer it would be done for her.

Today she has a bit of an upset tum so I have told her to stay in bed because she can get to the toilet more quickly so I have peace to stay in the house with teen daughter and wait on her instead! In daughter's defence she is studying for her A levels so needs a bit of spoiling.

Parsley I can identify with your father's disparaging comments on other elderly people.A less pleasant ,and less empathetic, side or my mum on recent year is how disparaging she is about anyone who has had to start using a wheelchair/ carers / go in a home etc.Especially if they are a few years younger ie still late 80s / early 90s.Any of the above to my mum is compared with how well she is doing -not- and a sign they are simply not trying enough .And she is not old like 'them'.I simply don't tell her half the stuff about friends parents,ex neighbours etc as a result now.