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Elderly parents

Concerns over brother as an executor of dad's will

39 replies

Winn1e · 07/12/2019 10:38

I have query about my eldest brother who had hardly supported and/or responded to numerous appointment and health update emails from the rest of his 4 siblings over the past few years re: our 93yo dad's cancer (multiple myeloma) treatment, but responds almost immediately when the issue of drawing up a will comes up.

NB. Our brother is a registered accountant, and wanted to make it clear in his recent correspondence that he would be prepared to act as an executor when it came to administering my dad's//parents joint will, (whilst making it clear that it was an onerous task that requires getting the finances right).

But given there have been tensions in the past between us as siblings, should we be concerned that he is offering to act as an executor, whilst also being a beneficiary of my parents (future) will? Is there any scope for fraud or underhand activity if he is left to record my parents financial assets, (as part of the probate process), and to then distribute those assets evenly amongst the beneficiaries named in the will?

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Ilovenutellaaaaa · 01/01/2020 08:38

I think an outside/independent executor is better in your circumstance...then you know for sure it's being split up evenly and that your brother doesn't have access to any more than his share of the will

Hollygaggles · 19/12/2019 14:33

Please insist that you are all granted with POA and act as executors. We will soon be on year 4 of a contentious probate dispute because 2 of my siblings forced my parents to name them as attorneys and then went on to drain tens of thousands of pounds from my dear parents' bank accounts before and after they died. It has been utterly soul-destroying and could all have been avoided if we had been less naive.

MrsFrankDrebin · 19/12/2019 14:28

As someone who's recently had to deal with numerous complications because my parents (now both deceased in the last 14 months - and the last 2 days ago) made it hopelessly complicated, I'd say stick with one (impartial) executor if you can. Multiple (even just 2 executors) are a nightmare because you'll need multiple signatures, multiple agreement, and have multiple paperwork issues.

We haven't even finished sorting out the issues with the Will/probate with the first DP to die, and now we have to deal with the death of the other one, and one of joint executors (my sibling) is flaky to say the least. It took them 4 months to stump up their ID last year... now anticipating all kinds of delays all over again. Plus they 'lost' a set of the paperwork they were sent to be signed last year... and I am really not looking forward to the next few months. To make matters worse, neither me, or my sibling, live anywhere near where my DPs lived, so we can't be present in person (I am actually overseas, my sibling lives in another part of the UK entirely) and it just makes things so much more complicated.

If you anticipate issues, appoint one impartial executor. With multiple executors it's just a nightmare, take it from me. Sad

BlingLoving · 11/12/2019 15:03

I honestly don't understand why anyone would choose as executor someone who is a) related to them and b) an equal beneficiary to other people.

I'm one of two executors to my sister and BIL's will, the other being a lawyer, that's because if they both die, I am also the person who will be raising their children and looking after their interests. Even that, if they had just made the lawyer the executor I'd have been fine with.

My dad recently realised getting one of my siblings to be executor was silly and changed it.

I'm in the process of trying to convince PIL to change theirs as DB's brother is currently named and it would be a disaster.

Neutral, paid, third party needs to be the answer here.

Celticrose · 11/12/2019 14:51

If your father passes his total estate to his wife there is no IHT and then when your mother passes the IHT threshold doubles to 650k afar as I know. You can check at the Gov. Website

Winn1e · 08/12/2019 10:27

I'm sorry you're also going through a similar situation RockinHippy, and my thoughts are also with you and your father as he manages with his myeloma.

Thanks also to everyone else who has offered their advice/suggestions thus far!

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Winn1e · 08/12/2019 10:22

Thanks for your comments Tigerty - I'm inclined to agree with you on everything you said.

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Winn1e · 08/12/2019 10:20

Jjcoleman, I'm so sorry to hear about the issues you have had with your mum. Did your sister have LPA to make such decisions e.g. to move your mum out from her home and into a care home in Kent. Also, as far as I can tell - a good solicitor should ask for a medical opinion re: the person's capacity to make a will, (although this doesn't appear to be compulsory).

www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/publications-and-factsheets/dementia-together-magazine/can-someone-dementia-make-will

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Winn1e · 08/12/2019 09:54

Hi Celtirose, initially my mum told the hospice nurses dad would want to have 50% of his share of the family home split between his 5 children, (and dad also confirmed this), which I thought was odd at the time.

I subsequently asked my mum where she had gotten that idea from, and she said one of my other brothers had suggested it to her recently re: a means of avoiding inheritance tax. Then my older brother (the accountant) later whatsapp'd that he didn't think this would be a problem as having 50% of the house shared between 5, would take us below the IHT threshold of £325,000. However, he also gave the estimated cost of their house as approx. £250,000, which is well below the threshold anyway. I thought this was odd in itself!

Then, when one of my sister-in-laws pointed out that if we had a 50% share of the house as well as my mother having her half share as the surviving parent - this might have the following implications:

"...if the property passes to you all in the near future, you all become owners with an owner's responsibility. The council tax for empty homes is 100%, rising to 200% after 2 years, so if your mum ever goes into care or moves elsewhere for care purposes, although there will be an exemption for this period, when she passes away and after probate is resolved the effective date of the property becoming empty is backdated to the original date. So, I often find executors who are suddenly faced with bills of 200% every month until the property is sold. In fact, as you will all be owners via your dad's bequest, you will all be jointly and severally liable anyway, so I do wonder if you'd have the benefit of any of the usual exemptions."

She also pointed out the following:
"I don't for one minute think one of you children would try and force a sale of the house but think about this for example - if one of you were to divorce then your ownership share would form part of the assets to be divided and could mean that one of us in-laws could request it is sold if our partner could not raise the cash equivalent."

All of the above is perfectly valid, and I hate the fact my mother was given bad advice from one of my other brothers, and have even wondered if this initial bit of advice might have been passed on from my accountant brother - such is my level of paranoia at the moment!!

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Winn1e · 08/12/2019 09:31

Ditto to you GU24Mum re: the response I gave to Piglet John.

Thanks all, it makes it a lot clearer in my head now as to how we can proceed/decide on the executor roles within our family. The only thing is - will my older brother kick up a fuss if he isn't chosen as an executor?

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Winn1e · 08/12/2019 09:25

Hi Piglet John, that sounds like very good advice. We can have as many family members act as executors (up to 4), and if needs be - we can get independent legal advice when it comes to navigating our way through the probate process.

Thanks again!

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Winn1e · 08/12/2019 09:22

Thank you for your advice Maine3. I have been posting up on another online forum and have pretty much decided that my mum's original suggestion of having myself and my sister as the executor's is probably the best one - as we're very unlikely to fall out when it comes to administering my parents wishes as set out within their (future) will.

Also, I know my parent's will not want to record having a solicitor as an executor because they would see it as an unnecessary cost - as money/wasting money has always been a big and deciding factor for them throughout their lives. It's almost part of their DNA, and I have felt frustrated (along with my siblings) over the years that they won't budge from the "it's too expensive... don't waste your money" mentality.

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PigletJohn · 07/12/2019 22:46

IME sons and daughters who are executors usually do it for nothing, as a family duty, but may charge for stamps and stationery (a lot of the initial time is in writing to banks, insurers, utility companies etc, and sending death certificates, which is pretty easy for a person with business experience, and making up accounts of assets and liabilities).

However, an executor who is, for example, an Accountant can charge his time to the estate at his normal rates.

If you make a solicitor the Executor, you're stuck with them. I favour making siblings joint Executors and they can appoint a solicitor to work for them. If they are dissatisfied they can move to another. You can't do that if the solicitor is named as Executor.

GU24Mum · 07/12/2019 20:58

Completely agree that it doesn't sound as though your brother should be the some executor. BUT don't appoint a solicitor as executor either - much better to have 4 family members and then they can use a solicitor as much as they need to.

Celticrose · 07/12/2019 20:48

You can have all four or any combination of the four siblings as Executor. Also instead of appointing a solicitor as Executor you can appoint a solicitor to administer the estate. Is your father intending to leave all his estate to his wife. This would probably make it easy enough to administer. I am assuming the house is in joint names and would pass to his wife by order of survivorship and any other joint accounts. These would still need to be declared but would not form part of his estate. Depending on the amounts in any sole accounts probate would need to be produced to release any monies. When informing a financial institution of a death. They will want to know if there is a will and who are the executors and may require a copy of the will and perhaps I'd fir the executors. I used to deal with deceased accounts fir a financial institution but my knowledge may be a bit rusty. I am a bit concerned about the idea of your db having your mum have her home signed over to some of her grandchildren. Does your mum know that if she does this then you and 2 siblings would probably not see any of that inheritance. Also there is the deprivation of assets to consider if a care home is needed down the line. Also a solicitor should make sure that your mother would still have a right of residence to remain in her home.

RockinHippy · 07/12/2019 19:50

I'm sorry for what you are all going through with your DFs myeloma. My friend went through that so I feel for you all & wish you a ton of strength

I'm glad you've asked this question though & I'll be reading replies.

I have exactly this situation only there's me & younger DB. 83 yo DF has now set up his will & after some weird manipulative behaviour on DBS part, which saw him do himself out of my doing him a favour (asked for by DF) so that he could benefit from any inheritance as he's disabled & relies on benefits which he stands to lose when he inherits from DFs will, he is now the executor. He's shown his hand this last couple of weeks with some very nasty behaviour. There's also worrying MH problems at play & I know from his rant at me that he believes he now has all of the power to stop me inheriting anything & he's very bitter that he'll now in effect get nothing himself. DF is thankfully well right now, though not speaking to me or DB because of lies & manipulative behaviour from DB & DF not knowing what to believe. So like you I'm not having to deal with it now, but can see I'm probably in fir a rocky ride. I think DB is also annoyed that DF wants my DD to have an equal share, even though he agreed this with DF

I hope your situation turns out to be a lot simpler, but it sounds like good advice to avoid your DB being an executor of your parents will & have multiple where possible

Purplewithred · 07/12/2019 19:07

”I was a little cautious though when my brother sent us a link for gifting my parents home to their children, as a means of mum potentially avoiding future care bills once my dad dies“

Do not let him be sole executor. His suggestion is morally corrupt, prioritises his inheritance over your mum’s quality of care, and is likely to be seen as deliberate deprivation of assets. God knows what he’d get up to if he was in charge of the estate.

Aycharow · 07/12/2019 18:59

I strongly suggest that your parents appoint the solicitor who draws up the will to be executor. It doesn't have to be a family member at all.

jkyody · 07/12/2019 18:54

My brother is executed of our dads will, not following protocol at all. I was given 50% of our dads ranch, brother will not meet with me to divide the property. Is going to sue me for not accepting his offer to buy my half, the offer was a joke.he has not done any of our dads requests in the will. One was he wished to buried in the state where the ranch is. He lived in a different state with his wife when he passed, she had him cremated and kept his ashes. The law firm that drew up the will has dissolved. However one of the attorneys that drew up / signed the will is now a retired federal judge. It clearly states in the will that if my brother & I argue, a judge will decide. Brother has an attorney. I am not/ cannot retain legal counsel. The will Is clear. How can I get this to a Judge. My brother hates me now beyond words because I will not let him manipulate me.

Jjcoleman · 07/12/2019 16:01

There is no law to protect these people with this disease my sister got my mum to change her Will and she kidnapped her from the home she lived in for 47 years and made the tyre Care Home in Kent where she's never been before and the law has allowed this because there's no law in place that States she cannot do this she also got my mother to change the will knowing that she scored 6 out of 30 on an assessment

Jjcoleman · 07/12/2019 15:59

There is no support for vulnerable people with Alzheimer's and dementia and they are being LED down the wrong path

Maine3 · 07/12/2019 14:43

I would get a solicitor to act as executor. Even with the cost it can be better all round in the long run. A solicitor will have transparency and accountability. Not so an executor regardless of their profession. If there is a dispute you will end up needing one. If you really don' t want to go with a solicitor or it isn't supported insist on more than one executor and ensure you have complete transparency even now. It may be an idea to consider setting up a power of attorney too which specifies in what circumstances a living person's affairs can be handled in the event they become incapacitated. You can have more that one POA. Increasingly important with elderly relatives likely to need care. You might want to think about getting accurate and independent financial advice. It's complex as there are rules around wilful disposal of assets to try and avoid care home fees. I'm sure you will want the best care should it come to that. Watch out for behaviours that don't quite add up. Taking control of finances, day to day decisions, engagement with authorities, not providing information unless asked, not forthcoming, promoting that they are on hand and subtley discouraging efforts to help from other family and so on. i wish you all the very very best. Take care.

TARSCOUT · 07/12/2019 13:04

If this is an issue before will even drawn up I would have solicitor as executor

Kimberleegee · 07/12/2019 12:44

Having recently been ripped off of a £600,000 inheritance I would be overly cautious here, if your parents don’t feel having him as an executor is right then it probably isn’t, suggest a completely independent account or have ALL of you as executors ! That way nothing can be done without the other everything has to be transparent, go with your gut. Xx

Thehagonthehillwithtinsel · 07/12/2019 11:32

Ask yourum to stick to the original plan.It doesnt sound as if they have complicated arrangements so it will be easily manageable by you.