Paying for a care home

I'm coming late to this thread. But please ask LA to assess your DM's needs and please ask their advice on their local care home fees if their assessment shows she requires that, as it is not always the case that LA will agree to short term loan at the rate of the bed at the home you've chosen against the property . They have very strict complex criteria and it still comes out of their budget, so if you pick a home hugely more than their fees and the home isn't worth that much, you might have trouble getting interim loan funding for full amount. Some care homes will negotiate to LA rate whilst it is LA interim funded.

*NB Terms have changed but it's easier to explain it in old terms.

I’m interested in the reply from MereDint that the LA might take over the costs of caring for her at home - given it’s a lot more expensive than a care home I had thought they would want to move her. That's probably correct, they will want the cheapest solution that meets her needs. She's clearly getting a high level of care at home if it's totting up to £800 a week or so. But it might be worth asking - it seems that every time an elderly person is moved, their cognitive skills take another leap downward.

I didn't express myself very well by saying you can get away without care fees by leaving it to another member of the family. What was meant is that some people will just leave all the work and caring to another family member, raise objections about carers and care homes and selling houses, never visit the parent (but will often rock up at the hospital or home to put in complaints to show they "care") as one of other family members is prepared to give up their time and often health to do the caring.
As for giving cash away - early, and in small frequent doses may be the only way.

I am in my 60s and looked after 4 elderly people (PIL and Parents) with complex needs, mental and physical, for a period of 15 years. Eventually they all went into care homes, all self funding, using all their savings, pension, assets, we kept one tiny bungalow by renting it out.
None of the 4 elderly people in question ever needed to care for there own parents because they didn't live that long.
We have to do all this care work while simultaneously working and looking after our own families.
My own health and my sister's health is utterly destroyed by it all.

My mil has Alzheimer’s and is currently cared for at home. She is running out of money so I think we will need to move her into a care home and sell her house to pay the fees. You don't need to move her into a care home because she's running out of money, the LA will take over. They'll means test, but the value of her house won't be included while she's still living in it.

If you move her into a care home because her needs are getting more severe, then the value of the house will be taken into account, but someone's explained above that they can put a charge on it so they don't claim the money until the house is sold.

You can get away without paying care fees by leaving it all to another member of the family. I'm not sure you can - if you leave it in your Will, then it's included in the assessment. If you try to pre-empt by giving it to another family member while you are still alive, then LAs are able to assess you as if your financial position was the same as if you hadn't given the money away. So if they assess you as self-funding, you either cope without care, or your family have to stump up.

Deprivation of assets is about making deliberate attempts to divest oneself of funds in order to avoid paying for care fees. That's not the same as using one's savings to help family members before the idea of going into care is on the cards.

The problem is whether you can still help family members once going into care is "on the cards" and at what stage the LA consider it's "on the cards".

I'm surprised at the number of people who expect their parent to go into care and still have an inheritance as a matter of right. I think what people have been expressing is the fundamental unfairness of a scheme that says "if you have a disease which needs medical care your children can inherit everything; if your disease causes mainly social needs, they inherit (virtually) noting". And the fact that care can be so open ended means that insurance is prohibitively expensive - a big catastrophe in life, and you can't practicably insure for it in the way you would for, eg, your house burning down.

You can avoid care fees by looking after your parent in your home till they die, as our grandparents did. But in our grandparents day, people didn't live so long, they didn't live so long in ill-health, and they were far less likely to have dementia. And if they did have dementia, the medical profession were much less good at keeping their bodies going. It's not realistic for one person, even with help from a partner, to keep a 24 hour watch on someone, as well as washing and dressing them, toileting them, feeding them, dealing with levels of medication that were unheard of 40 years ago, dressing ulcerated legs or pressure sores, coping with disturbed or even aggressive behaviour. Let alone doing this while still looking after children or doing a full time job.

@fiftiesmum I don't disagree with you. I was answering the poster who said that it wasn't fair that someone couldn't pass their life's savings to their children instead of paying for their own care.

I brought both of my parents to live with me when they couldn't cope. Both had dementia, both eventually went into care. Their time with us was precious but unbelievably hard. Going into care reset our relationship. My DM is happy and well cared for, I visit most days and I know her needs are being properly met.

I may have given up my inheritance but I kept my sanity. I think it was a reasonable price to pay.

If the OP's DSis wants to keep the house she needs to step up.

I wish the choice was that simple either pay for care or do it yourself but as OP says her DSis wants to keep the house so the choice is more complex. You can get away without paying care fees by leaving it all to another member of the family. We looked after mum for a short time at home but it took its toll with the whole of our family (work, education etc as on call 24/7) plus constant criticism from siblings who did nothing to help. She has moved into a home and visits are pleasant. Siblings still don't visit and I hope every penny is spent.

Deprivation of assets is about making deliberate attempts to divest oneself of funds in order to avoid paying for care fees. That's not the same as using one's savings to help family members before the idea of going into care is on the cards.

From personal experience we found our LA very reasonable when assessing my DM's assets. We were prepared for a lot of questions (for which we had the answers) but their approach was very compassionate. We were allowed, for example, to take out a funeral plan so that we wouldn't have to pay it from her final estate.

I'm surprised at the number of people who expect their parent to go into care and still have an inheritance as a matter of right.

You can avoid care fees by looking after your parent in your home till they die, as our grandparents did.

If you want someone else to deal with their shit, figuratively and literally, you have to expect to pay for it.

OP to answer your question the LA will put a charge on the property and recoup the cost when it sells, however long that takes.

Selling the house cheaply will release the money sooner. Depending on her life expectancy and the value of the property that might be the sensible option. The LA will take over funding her care when the proceeds of sale run out, so you might as well get rid of the responsibility of the property and have one less thing to worry about.

They can dig as far as they like and pay very expensive lawyers.

Does anyone know how far the LA will go digging back (although going from previous dealings with our LA I don't think they are capable of digging a hole at the beach). Most homes near us have both self and LA funded residents and I assume the staff are not aware who is who so treated the same regardless and neighbours being cared for at home are visited by carers from the same agency.
I personally would not want to see my children accumulate huge student debt, have insufficient deposit to rent or buy somewhere to live or to have an unreliable car when they need it for work and have lots of savings just in case.

I suppose you could make your children's lives easier by passing on the money sooner rather than later and early enough so you are not intentionally depriving the authority like I have seen quite a few people do But how early does that need to be? LAs are digging further and further back, and it could be that if you leave it till your 60s it's too late ... but in your 60s you still don't know what your own needs are.

Sorry I meant per week. That is even more money that those who have saved are subsiding the others by.
I suppose you could make your children's lives easier by passing on the money sooner rather than later and early enough so you are not intentionally depriving the authority like I have seen quite a few people do

For me it's the unfairness. I do not want to live with dementia. The phrase "keep your mum safe" fills me with terror. But to be kept alive in a living hell ... and have taken from me all the money I've saved with the intention of making my children's life easier, and knowing that someone else will be able to pass everything to their children because they were deemed to have medical needs.

A place un a dementia unit costs around £900 per week for self funders.
LA funding is around £500 per week.
Not per month.
It is staggering.
The NHS contribution would be less than £100.

I feel like that as well about the unfairness of the system where a person who has a medical problem is cared for at NHS expense but dementia is not classed as a medical problem by government.
The other unfairness is care home fees. A typical place may cost the home £800 to run and because the local authority will have a contact to pay £600 a month then all the self funders will be paying over £1000 to make up for it.

Why is there always the reluctance to sell the family home to pay care home fees - and usually by member of the family who have had no active role in looking after the elderly person involved - perhaps to ensure their inherit

Think it's to do with the unfairness of it my parents home is there pride and joy .When we were kids both parents had 2 jobs to pay for it .They have done without holidays run old cars paid highrate tax sometimes. Always been there goal to leave something for there family.
There friend who if they earned a £1 spent £1.01 work cash in hand alot of the time done equity realise on house spent it on cruises ,cars and general shit . Would get it funded

Why is there often a reluctance by family members to sell the family home to pay care home fees often by those who have had no active part in the care of the elderly person. Are they as reluctant to let go of their precious memories once there is a chance to get their hands on the cash. We were lucky in that mum sold the family home while still capable and DSis couldn't complain when we sold her house to pay fees.

Why is there always the reluctance to sell the family home to pay care home fees - and usually by member of the family who have had no active role in looking after the elderly person involved - perhaps to ensure their inherit

Seek financial advice and contact her social worker

Not a problem - talk to local SSD - they will pay for care pro tem and simply put a legal charge on the property and when it sells they recoup their money.