The second new shiny 2019 thread ...

Avocado do you mind if I ask the age of your mum?

I can't work out if I'm being a horribly irresponsible daughter by not being worried about my mum being 10lb underweight.

I see the strain on the heart argument - but she is 80? Is all this worry from the doctor geared up for the whole "we must keep people alive as long as possible" thing that seems to go on now?

My mother refused a pacemaker a couple of years ago and has a DNR. She would be horrified at the idea of living into her 90s. I tend to think the decent thing to do is let her get on with life as she wishes.

@mere I wish my geriatric had that much of an appetite! It's like trying to feed a sparrow with anorexia. Portion sizes can literally be 20% of what I'm eating.

@grace I can laugh about the spices as I can throw them out later without needing to worry too much. The stuff that makes me worry is the stuff that might be a Ming vase or might be utter tat and no one has a clue how to differentiate

Re the weight loss, we're at the very very elderly end of things, but it's adding to general frailty (she really is just skin and bone now), it's probably putting extra pressure on her heart (as with anorexics who have heart attacks) and we worry more about pressure sores as there's just no padding any more.

this may be a stupid question but what is the worry with weight loss in the elderly - is it general frailty? Mum has had so many issues with IBS over the years, I completely see why she'd rather eat to suit herself.

I do worry that she's more likely to break a bone in a fall, but having broken two bones myself, in 20s and 30s, I know it's just as much about the situation and the angle of the fall etc.

It's ironic because while I'm trying not to angst over things, her friends and the doctor are making a big deal of it. She isn't bothered either.

Dint I couldn't eat what they are serving your dad, glad he is enjoying it!

Avocado Oh dear, I feel for you. These are moments when I realise I'm whining about nothing!

On a related note, I recently found some spices which had suspiciously 70s looking packaging. I couldn't find a use by date on it, so I googled the name of the company. They went out of business in 1984 There has been a house move since then so they must have transported food that was already at least a decade old, and then sat on it for another 3 decades.

On account of the antique nature of the spices, they were returned to the kitchen cupboard so that in future we can marvel at just how old this stuff is.

MNHQ may need to add an emoji for banging your head against a brick wall.

I think as they (one?) age, appetite loss is very common. I know with mum it was always advised she should eat little and often and whatever she wanted - cakes, cream, smoked salmon, whatever she could face. But her appetite declined so much, she was like a little bird at the end. And the feeding up with protein shakes etc only came when she was in hospital, by which point it was too late.

Ditto the 'stuff'! I have mostly cleared DM's house, but there's shedloads of her stuff in my house which I dont want or dont have room for or cant see the point of keeping... DB declined the stuff so I'm gradually taking it for valuation/sale (and keeping the money) or charity shopping it if the DDs dont want it.

DH and I are coming round to the conclusion that the bag for life may be best option, depending on what consultant says after MDT meeting tomorrow. Our first concern: get rid of the cancer; second: quality of life. We both agree that being doubly incontinent after 2 ops at the age of 56 does not = great quality of life. But I am being conscious of telling him that it is his body, not mine. (but if I was doubly incontinent I'd want to die).

Yes, buying stuff from those places. Some of it is beautiful but there's some which is indisputable junk, a lot in the middle and there's just so, so much of it. First world problems, however!

I've no idea about the point at which protein shakes might be suggested, but with 20/20 hindsight I'm not sure if weight loss in the elderly is ever reversed, so I'd act early to keep as much weight on for as long as possible. The family geriatric is skin and bone with no appetite and no way of getting any of the weight back on. She was always a bit plump into her early 80s, so I wouldn't have predicted where we are now.

Avocado you mean a lifetime of buying stuff from those places?

Just looked up mum's height and weight on a chart - not a chart for the elderly. She's 80 years old, she's about 10lb underweight.

that's not a weight that should have anyone suggesting protein shakes is it? Tbh I'm loath to suggest that anyway as she is prone to indigestion. She does mobility exercises daily and if she drops something on the floor, it's no bother at all to her to pick it up.

everything in her house is valuable

After a lifetime of car boot sales, antiques fairs, antiques auctions and charity shops, there's an incredible mish mash of stuff here.

She'll point to something and tell me "it might be valuable" and I genuinely haven't a clue. Trouble is she's rattling around in a big house (20 rooms or so, if you count the little ones) that's full of everything from antique taxidermy of now endangered species to a broken microwave stashed in case in comes in useful.

There's two reasons I dread her going; one because I'll miss her dreadfully but other because we'll have to clear the house. Cash in the Attic producers would have a field day.

Dint I know that's why mum looks as she does. I'm just saying I find it depressing. That sounds mean doesn't it. Once again, it's like occupying quite a nice planet till I go round there...

mum also wants to sort the house so I don't have to. Anyway, if she really stops talking to me about it, I'll be pleased, though I'm not holding my breath!

yolo sorry to hear that. I hope if the MDT meeting will bring better news. It sounds as if there are some "to be confirmed" factors there?

Monica so you mean your mum waffles on about it and you just listen?

I have to say, it's turned into a bit of a Pavlovian reaction for me. She had a bunch of crap taken by a charity shop today. Then she called and said to me "at some point we will have to think what else could be useful for charity".

and I said "why WE? I am not giving headspace to the mountains of crap, you are stressing me out".

and she said "oh sorry, I don't mean to stress you out, I just say "we" because I think of it as your house too. I won't ask you to look at anything this time".

I really do not want to think of the crap mountain as having anything to do with me. I know she thinks she's doing me a favour so I won't have to pay for skip hire or something when she's gone, but in reality, if there are a squillion bits of crap, and she gets rid of them slowly, then there will still be a squillion bits of crap to move if she goes into a retirement home.

Yolo
This might be tmi, and apologies if it is, but when my mum had her permanent colostomy ( although by then cancer was very advanced and in reality she only lived 11 further weeks ) But because they did not remove the anus ,she still lost ( let's call it secretions ) and had to wear pads/ nappies. She was never told this and it was a terrible shock for her.

Hug sent from here too Yolo xx

Yolo. Sorry that's awful

yolo I'm so sorry today has been disappointing. Hope the MDT can come.up with some more options/reassurance on Thursday.

Dint your DH and DS sound lovely. I have just read the chocolate story out to DD in the hope she takes the hint, although tbf I want to go beach horseracing when we going hols in October and need to shift at least 2.5 stone to reach the weight limit . 4lb down...31 to go!

I'm lucky in that my mum is something of a minimalist and she and dad don't really have any hobbies - they also have very different taste to me. Dad's little used art stuff will be absorbed into my collection when the time comes along with some of his books (mum's extensive collection of Princess Di conspiracy theory tomes can go to the charity shop!). Aside from probably a couple of drawers worth of personal memorabilia there won't be a lot to sort when the time eventually comes.

Oh, yolo. Have a hug or supportive squeeze of the hand, as you prefer.

Grace - I’m studiously doing nothing. We’re at an impasse, although occasionally she donates to the local jumble sale.

{{{{{yolo}}}}}

Oh yolo 🌺🌺🌺🌺

Yolo

Nothing is ever straightforward. Just back from seeing surgeon. There are 2 possible ops: one complete removal including anus, so bag for life (there's a joke in there somewhere), the other a resection so just a temporary bag but with potential very nasty side effects including dual incontinence and the possibility that then couldnt switch to permanent bag option. Plus, the tumour seems to be fixed to something, which means they would need to take a much wider lump out.

No decisions yet, his case goes back to MDT on Thurs and he will call us Thurs night. If case too difficult for local hospital means we will have go to another one about two hours away. Rather takes away the elation of Friday night, but ho hum.

Monica what do you do then, have you actually dealt with any of it?

There's a bunch of crap being collected from mum's this week and then I think even she's had enough. Well I hope so. She seemed really tired yesterday.

apologies if repeating myself but I think sometimes what brings me down is what she looks like rather than how she actually is. She has lost a huge amount of weight, is permanently freezing and wrapped in shawls, and looks a lot older than she is - all since dad died. But when I offer to do certain things - yesterday it was planting something in a pot - she looks baffled and says "well I'm perfectly capable of doing that". The fact she looks as if she might snap like a twig is probably freaking me out.

Yes, one of the reasons I don't want to deal with my mother's stuff (or rather I don't want to deal with it in the way she envisages) is that I'm already struggling with the houseful of random tat priceless objets d'art we have here. It's hard enough decluttering here, without mother assuming that, because retro and vintage are in fashion, everything in her house is valuable and I must take it to be auctioned (and, arch capitalist that she is, when we did auction something she was miffed that the auctioneers took commission).