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Elderly parents
Original poster

Supporting spouse - PIL, dementia, controlling SIL

218 replies

Slugslasher · 28/11/2018 10:28

Quick background info: We have been NC with controlling sil (csil) for over 15 years for multiple reasons having lived away (the latter 4 years, at the other side of the world). 20 months ago when H retired we returned about 40 minutes drive from pil’s home. H also has a B and N(ice) sil (nsil) who along with csil live 5 minutes drive from pil.

csil has always been extremely (joined at the hip) close to pil and has over decades been a toxic influence on them and her brother and his wife until eventually bil and nsil saw the light and went no contact with her also. Despite csil’s best efforts both sons aided by their wives (me and nsil) managed to maintain a loving relationship with pil. Pil tried to steer their ship through all the ups and downs of their fractured family relationship - appeasing csil (as she screamed the loudest) allowing her full control of their lives.

Csil was widowed tragically in her early forties with two young children (she is now 58). We as a family were very supportive to her when this happened but sil decided ‘that part of her life was over’ and wore her widow’s weeds with aplomb. As the years passed sil and pil’s lives became more and more entwined with pil heavily involved with childcare so csil could carry on working. As pil became older csil then gradually turned the tables until neither could live without the other and she became the support to them. Eventually pil could not make any decisions for themselves, ran everything past her, domination of them was complete. Both of her now adult children still live with their mother. Both are ‘odd’ neither have managed to maintain adult relationships; their mother was highly controlling as they grew up; both were very unpleasant to us, we assumed this was due their mother’s toxicity - we did not add flames to any fires. NC was our way of managing csil and her little family.

csil in my opinion, has serious mental issues. She catastophises everything. She has cried wolf so many times that we now do not react until we see first-hand whatever crisis occurs (usually a storm in a teacup). Her anxiety levels are sky high and her anger and jealousy at my Dh - (her brother) even higher. Mostly I think the fact we moved away from the area and dared to have a happy life beyond the narrow confines of her life has angered her. She is now trying to use her ailing parents as a tool with which to control us and her other brother and wife.

Fast forward to the situation today : Both pil are now 90 (fil) and 87 (mil). Both with memory problems both 100% reliant on her, who is now self appointed carer. She is paid by pil to be their carer and because there are no assets (social housing - no savings) we volunteered to top up her earnings to make up her ‘wages’ so that she wasn’t out of pocket. Csil will not countenance outside help, until both brothers forced the issue and a cleaner was brought in to lighten the load. Nsil and I do not get involved in any decision making but support the brothers in a weekly rota to help. DH and I go every Tuesday. He does the grocery shopping, I prepare and serve the main meal (lunch), prepare afternoon tea for them to serve themselves and do some light housework. Bil and nsil do the same on Sundays. Csil manages everything else. Fil is blind, confused, has a severe tremor and diabetes. He has insulin injected every day (by csil because she is an ex nurse and fell out with the district nurses). Mil is on a zimmer, struggling to walk, completely confused and does not recognise she is in her own home now. Csil refuses point blank to consider care home for either of them and is in the process of autonomously taking them into her own home. Pil will do as they are told and are under complete control of csil.

Both brothers do not agree that she should do this but she is overruling them and steaming ahead with it.

Epic story. Thank you for reading if you have stayed with it.

I am using this as a way of keeping check on events as they unfold and will welcome constructive advice how to handle the fallout when csil crashes and burns. I am seriously worried about her (as much as I do not like her). Nobody could cope with what she is insisting on taking on.

I will add that DH has been emphatic that he has not worked for over 46 years to become a carer. I offered to take father into our home (fog) to lighten her load but DH will not budge.

Currently financial assessments are being made and occupational therapists are assessing csil’s home. We are aghast.

OP posts:
Niquitic · 18/04/2019 20:43

Delurking to wish you, the whole family, all the best. Unfortunately, as I telescope forward, I can see us in a similar position, though my sister is not like your csil; rather she is sure her way is the only right way...despite my DPs protests.

Original poster
Slugslasher · 10/04/2019 18:39

Quick update: Csil is not convinced ‘this’ carehome has got adequate procedures in place to monitor fil’s diabetis (his blood sugars were dramatically up the first week he was in there; it was ‘she’ who flagged it up, brought gp in to increase his insulin and mentioned diet control; they appeared clueless then when challenged. This has spooked her. She isn’t confident that she can trust them to safeguard him because she maintains father hasn’t the capacity to make the right (safe) choices when it comes to picking his foods. ‘She has a point. (His pancreas has packed up, he needs this monitoring acutely). Father is getting assessed for mental capacity next week. He appears lucid but we know he as memory problems and his story telling is outlandish. (“Care home will be under attack at at 2.30 pm, we’ve got to be ready...”) recent example.

Fil backtracked (without any coaching from anyone) on his decision when asked, on staying in a care home (any care home) because he was worn out with mother Whittering about her wanting to go back to her daughter’s. On more gentle questioning agreed that his daughter couldn’t carry on any more and accepted this is the way it is. Mother reiterated - “she doesn’t want to be a burden” and followed his lead. Of course she then forgets and the whittering will carry on.

It was confirmed this is the right decision, in a meeting without parents present - Csil will not/cannot take them back.

SW has funding confirmed for another week’s respite to enable Csil to investigate other carehomes in the area. Husband is going along with it although has said he was happy for them to stay where they were with a view that they could be moved later if the family found they were not happy with their care. They can’t afford top up fees, this home doesn’t charge them; csil is on a mission to look elsewhere we (H and I) don’t hold out much hope that we will get 5* carehome with no top up fees that can take a couple that will meet with Csil’s expectations in a week’s time. Bil had to rush back to work, not sure what his opinion is yet but I assume he will agree with H.

Ongoing..

OP posts:
Twisique · 10/04/2019 10:20

If there are three siblings and fil then csil is outvoted isn't she? Strength in numbers and all that. She is a lone voice. Good luck today.

Wallywobbles · 09/04/2019 16:01

Indeed. Good luck.

Original poster
Slugslasher · 09/04/2019 14:45

Everything crossed for tomorrow.

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Original poster
Slugslasher · 09/04/2019 14:43

She’s turning around this care home according to SW. We’ve read the reports and they are improving. Csil will always look for the negatives,that goes without saying.. I witnessed a carer going round and kissing all residents as she went off shift. Same carer came in on Saturday morning on her day off to tell them all about her night out the night before and how her child had got on in a football tournament. A rough diamond with a big heart and a loud Geordie accent - (think Cheryl Cole on steroids 🤣). Staff laughing and joking: “Hands up if you think I’m gorgeous” that sort of thing. Mother looks on bemused, father laugh out loud. Csil complains because she saw the staff outside having a fag break. 🥴

OP posts:
Fortysix · 09/04/2019 14:02

Slugslasher my reference to 'his' was that the Manager upheld Fil's position to Csil. Brilliant that she as non-family is prepared to put his views and opinions ahead of Csil's and saying that she is formally obliged to as he has capacity.
And what an amazing, thorough woman she sounds! How good is she taking the independent 'data' from the district nurses / surgery so she can't be told she is amending records to recruit new business.
I think it was Random who said up thread to be good to the staff and those who take on the role of carers for your PiL. Absolutely this if the financials all work out and they are taken on by this assessing care home. I've probably come across about six or seven care home managers and this woman already sounds she is up there with the best. Grin

Original poster
Slugslasher · 09/04/2019 13:38

Care home manager is female. So is SW.

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Original poster
Slugslasher · 09/04/2019 13:35

@Wizzywig - all I will say about Csil is she needs help.

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Original poster
Slugslasher · 09/04/2019 13:33

She’s also contacted pil’s surgery and got this week’s records of fil’s blood sugar counts which were 10 points lower than the results csil was blethering on about. District nurses have been monitoring and recording whilst they are in there as opposed to Csil (who has been going in with her equipment and doing it also). They are getting the picture now of who they are dealing with. It is going to be interesting how she handles these professionals on Wednesday.

I could write a book about csil. I was 17 when I met her she was 14. I got to the age of 49 before a lightbulb lit and I put her out of my life. It was a huge relief to me to go no contact. I cannot/will not engage with her.

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Fortysix · 09/04/2019 12:42

Hearhere A lot comes down to good luck and whether the 'staff' naturally bond well with the resident. My DM, I suspect, would rather have exited the planet four years ago.

Little nuggets from Slugslasher's commentary suggest assessing home seems a very positive place and potentially good fit. It's impressive that the Manager is actually on the floor, listening to and watching the residents. Having both together in the conservatory is very reassuring. It's good too, that the Manager know's what FiL's rights are and seems prepared to uphold his position to Csil. Also good that the chef is on site and so meals are freshly made and can be tailored. Also impressive is that the Manager has actually spoken to two of the siblings in the space of one day and is preparing 48 hours ahead for the social worker meeting on Wednesday. This is care home gold Grin. Slugslasher everything crossed for you and yours.

Hearhere · 09/04/2019 11:49

Genuinely, she is happy and is awake more than half the day. Four years ago and living at home she was barely six stone and slept 16-18 hours a day. We never thought she'd survive. Now she could easily go on for another 5-10 years

Wow that's quite something isn't it, a good care home, or appropriate and well-managed sheltered housing can potentially give very good quality of life

wizzywig · 09/04/2019 08:51

God, sorry. Read your update op. Fingers crossed your inlaws remain stable and content

wizzywig · 09/04/2019 08:45

Could it be she underwent such a huge trauma losing her husband that she is trying to control this situation and is going way overboard?

RandomMess · 09/04/2019 08:38

Hopefully with PIL expressing their wishes and DH and BIL supporting them the SW will not be allowed to move however much CSIL kicks off?

Perhaps CSIL needs to be told that there is not a care home where PIL can be micro managed with HER wishes. If she carries on the care home May end up having to charge her with harassment Confused

Original poster
Slugslasher · 09/04/2019 00:21

Husband and I visited today after their lunch time. When we arrived pil were sitting side by side, in armchairs, in the conservatory; father holding mothers hand, with carehome manager and SW along with one of the carers standing in the background in attendance. It appeared to me they were gently ascertaining their wishes ‘without’ family members present. A relaxed friendly, caring situation. Smiles all round. We joined in their little meeting and listened. Father has capacity, when asked, he is certain he wants to remain in the carehome. He couldn’t sing their praises enough. Mother was in agreement; she waxed lyrical about ‘her lovely family’ her love for her husband and he reciprocated. The whole attendants were in raptures about how they came across. They are armed with all this information for the meeting on Wednesday. The carehome manager is now aware of Csil’s huge concern over father’s diet (csil is obsessive and micro manages everything) but said to us that as father does have capacity they cannot refuse to let him have what he chooses as that would be legally classed as abuse. They would however inform the chef to tailor his choices (reduce the carbs and increase the veggies for example) for diabetics. They are going to get advice from dietician from the health team at the surgery. They are bending over backwards to accommodate their needs this did come across to me.

However: csil had visited earlier after breakfast; I asked carehome manager if she thought she had reassured csil. “Definitely not” she said.

Nsil phoned me later: csil is visiting other carehomes in the area.

After the meeting and when we were alone with pil, mother asked me if she had meat in the oven and looked at fil and asked him if he had his key for the house for when they go home.

OP posts:
Fortysix · 08/04/2019 13:14

This is tangential Hearhere but in one of DM's places no-one in her unit (14 persons) vacated the care home in a whole year... they were so well looked after they all thrived. However, from what I've witnessed, very few actually find the right recipe and certainly not first time around. My DM is on the lowest dose of trazodone and nothing else. Genuinely, she is happy and is awake more than half the day. Four years ago and living at home she was barely six stone and slept 16-18 hours a day. We never thought she'd survive. Now she could easily go on for another 5-10 years.

Being a carer 24/7 to someone who kicks off in the night- banging on windows to escape, throwing glasses of water is incredibly hard.
Eventually being cared for in shifts is the only way to proceed.

Hearhere · 08/04/2019 12:25

DM was medicated and now she has 'happy' dementia where she is relaxed and says 'I love you' to everyone
I suppose this will be the answer 'soma' for the elderly, a range of drugs will be developed to soothe and pacify the demented

Hearhere · 08/04/2019 12:19

Somewhat tangential but it appears that we need a whole team of people to deal with each difficult elderly person
going forward how is this going to pan out?
We have falling birth rates and increasing numbers of elderly people requiring care, there will not be enough people available and willing to look after them all, or should I say us all because by the time my cohort get to the elderly point the situation will surely be much more acute

Fortysix · 08/04/2019 11:31

Pretty eventful week for all of you. The 24/7 anxiety experienced by MiL will be managed so much better by a team. My own DM was like this for four weeks when she initially moved out of her home to both mine and my DSis when DF was hospitalised. She ended up being sectioned as she became violent. DM was medicated and now she has 'happy' dementia where she is relaxed and says 'I love you' to everyone. Removing MiL from her familiar will have triggered extra anxiety and made her increasingly frightened. Pretty sure the assessing care home will say she will respond much better once she as been differently medicated. I bet they try to give FiL some me-time when they can.
So glad for you all that there is now a shared objective. However, Ruby and Hearhere seem to have the measure of things. Hearhere 's thoughts in particular made sense to the situation.
I guess Wednesday will come down to what's best / finances/ what affordable home has availability for two.

Fingers crossed the assessing care home ends up taking them full time. Looking positively the care home manager will see that FiL is quite endearing and will see beyond the immediate problems of MiL. With luck they will also realise there are 'normal' family visitors as well as CSil. If any of you can tell CSiL that kicking off about current home might not be in the best interests as a bird -in-the-hand and all that...
The other alternatives might mean parents are in different places albeit temporarily, or maybe same venue but on different floors or somewhere less nicely appointed. You already you know that the catering meets the mark. Grin Hang on in there.

Original poster
Slugslasher · 08/04/2019 06:53

Following a week of all of us visiting at different times the whole family (including csil) have realised that due to the behaviour of mil, poor fil is not getting any peace due to being on high alert for her. Anxiety and confusion is causing her to be disruptive through the night; staff are indicating that she is disturbing everyone on their floor and during the day her constant anxiety is giving him no peace. It is getting him down. The three siblings are now together in their concern for fil’s quality of life. They are coming together on this one in their communications to each other. Csil has experienced first hand this while they lived with her - causing her to capitulate. Siblings will be raising this at the meeting on Wednesday. Finally it appears they are on the same page and working together to find a solution for him.

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Original poster
Slugslasher · 07/04/2019 22:35

Good luck Wallywobbles. 💕

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Wallywobbles · 07/04/2019 20:24

Thank you for this thread. It's been so interesting and it's really reminded me that we need to get this sorted for MIL (80) who had a nasty fall this week. Big family so it's going to need some discussion.

Hearhere · 07/04/2019 10:48

Crazy sister-in-law appears to have narcissistic traits, she is using the parents as weapons, as a means of extending her power, she wields them like swords
In her unconscious mind they are a kind of representation of her, making the world revolve around then is a way of making the world revolve around her
(I hope that makes sense)

RandomMess · 07/04/2019 10:11

I wonder if abusive family members ever get restraining orders issued by care homes?