Probably going down in flames...

the part about loving her is just something I'm saying because I feel I ought to. I don't love her. I feel obligated to her and deep inside me that small child is still trying to find the right thing to say or do to win her approval, but I don't love her

I could have written that exact paragraph too @FuckKnuckle So many of us waited for that approval and love which never came. I'm so sorry it happened to you, and others on this thread

Fortunately for me, an older and wiser friend had a very similar relationship with her mother and she told me it was OK not to love my Mum. She had felt immense relief at her Mother's death, and seeing that somehow that gave me the freedom to be able to feel what I feel if that makes any sense?

I'm also so sorry for those of you whose parents have been stolen by illnesses such as dementia, for whom death will come as a relief for very different reasons. for you too.

My sister has always been clear that she doesn't want to know while she is away. And it doesn't stop her going away multiple times a year.

Knuckle, that sounds so stressful

are you in touch with your brother because of your mum? Would you go NC later on? I'm just surprised to hear you have been pet sitting for him. Was the pet ill because he had been neglecting them?

My sis is kind of the same. She and her family are away every five minute and want to be out of touch. I did ask her to keep in touch last time and she did but it remains to be seen whether they'd come back from a holiday.

it's a bit weird because while I understand while she is NC, I'd want her to come back to help me.

re doc, blood pressure has gone back to normal and I have to see doc at regular intervals about other things so I'll wait for that next appointment.

@AdoraBell, thankyou. I feel for your DH - please make sure he knows he's not alone.

@Lighthouse, I actually agree with Pickle - I think you should visit your GP and see what he says about your blood pressure. It's bad enough having to deal with the stress that your parents are putting you through - you don't want it to make you physically ill as well. You have a life that you are entitled to live and enjoy.

I've had an eventful week. Mother is very ill - we saw her yesterday, and she sounds terrible. The house is finally being sold, but DB has gone on holiday, so we have had to sort it all - we live hours away. When he left he told us that if she dies while he's away (which is a real possibility now) he doesn't want to be told until he gets back. And just to top it all off, I was supposed to be looking after a pet of his while he's away. It was in such a terrible state I had to take it to the vet who said there was nothing they could do. It's been euthanased. I haven't told him yet.

Thing is, he's dumped all this in our laps (we're pretty sure he's mentally unwell, but not sure how to approach things without making him worse), which has meant we've had to make some pretty major decisions on our owns. And I'm now terrified of his return because we're bound to have got some things wrong, and I'm supposed to be picking him up.

I wish this would all just go away.

@AdoraBell
Thank you, sorry hear your DH has same.

@picklmepopcorn I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety years ago, they mostly just think it makes me weak and a weirdo.

Lighthouse, go to GP. Stress or not stress, it gives you something to use as an excuse! The GP says I have to avoid getting worried about anything.. so I won't see you this month

I think my DH is feeling similar to you OP, and some other pp.

His father is a complete bully and now that MIL is ill he’s getting much worse.

You are not evil at all. I haven’t read the entire thread yet, but it’s clear that you aren’t in the Evil camp.

I noticed I was feeling a bit odd yesterday and the parents thing is very much on my mind; I feel quite despairing about it all and want to run far away

I took my BP on the home machine. It's normally a bit low. It's gone up more than 20 points on the upper figure. the lower figure and pulse rate are normal.

DP thinks I should make a doc appointment because it's quite a rise

but the only thing I can think is that, seriously, it's the stress of this situation.

@picklemepopcorn

It used to, I agree. But they have no hobbies, no interests, and love wallowing. So there's nothing to ask about and nothing to tell them because they disapprove of us having fun.

and a lot of our lives are quite now, focusing on early retirement and maxing out savings, which they totally don't approve of either - because people who retire early are clearly bad people in their book.

sorry, not trying to knock down your suggestions, it's just we've hit the wall. I think there's nothing I can do but wait for said wall to crumble in whatever form it does.

A quick change of subject works well if you are able to get a word in edgeways. I keep a mental list of things I can ask about. When she starts on a rant, when if she pauses for breath I say 'oh I've been meaning to ask, how did xyz go in the end?' It generally distracts her enough.

@picklemepopcorn

that's a really interesting point.

both my parents grew up in enormous families with squillions of siblings, thought it was normal for parents to shout etc over the smallest of things.

Also I think they are unsettled because much as they know dad and I don't like each other, they are a bit "but we are your PARENTS" as if it gives them an automatic right to be loved.

I wouldn't wish illness on anyone but I do think dad is being very rude in how he treats the medical team who wanted to treat his condition last year and he wouldn't let them.

Also, I could be imagining this but I feel he has finally - unsurprisingly - turned out to be a blustering coward and perhaps they pick up on that. I mentioned upthread that he used to rant about "old people bed blocking" "old people are a drain on the NHS" etc and I thought it was damn rude. Alongside that, he used to be boastful about being unafraid of death. (I'm not afraid of death either but I don't feel the need to bang on at my family about it )

and after all this, it turns out he panics - at the first sign of a heart problem - arrythmia, for goodness' sake, which I had in my 20s - and he's all "oh it's TERRIBLE, you have no idea what it's like, it must be treated NOW". He was honestly surprised when mum reminded him i was 3 weeks in hospital with it in my 20s. Of course i know what it's like! I didn't create noise and drama about it either.

and the treatment he avoided last year - knowing fully the condition would get worse - is "uncomfortable" so he must be treated right now and it's not fair that there's a waiting list for treatment.

perhaps it was normal in their households to be all crazy and irrational and then have a big row with someone and then calm down. But that sort of thing drives me mad.

I think I'm going to start saying "What do you want?" when they call.

"Why do they do it?"

I've wondered about them being a traumatised generation. My DF was brought up by Victorians (older parents), DMs Dad was abusive, both were born just before WW2.

DM definitely recreates a chaotic environment around her when she is stressed. It's like ripples, she can't bear for anyone else to be feeling differently from her so she pokes and prods until you are wound up too. It's a way of controlling her environment I think.

@FuckKnuckle

oh I want to give you an unMumsnetty hug, that must have been so difficult to say that to her.

"Why do they do it?"

I don't know. I honestly don't really remember half the stuff she drags up.

Is it that they are so unhappy, all they can do is spread it around? I'm trying to feel compassion but that is diminishing rapidly.

the reason she was talking about a TV show was that she thought it was common ground as I'd watched it. but she did that thing of "they should have not made that programme, why did they make it, no one is interested it" - yes, she said that about a programme that she chose to watch and I'm not good at just saying "mmm" so I said
"well, you chose to watch it, I chose to watch it....I think it got good ratings..."

and she was quite enraged.

often on MN people will ask "is there maybe a dementia issue?"

but no, I'm quite sure there isn't.

I'm not going to phone again, but when she does she will say "well I don't why I'm phoning because apparently we can't even talk about television anymore..."

I feel like working life is a constant acting job and listening to people talk shit. having to do in personal life as well is just way too much!

sorry, that was long.

I meant to add - on one of the many occasions that she was telling me she wanted to die and that every night when she went to sleep she prayed she wouldn't wake up, I gave her what has become my standard response (I know that sounds hard, but there's only so much you can say when you're being told this time after time after time...), which is, "It's hard to hear you say that, because you're my mum and I love you, but I do understand", and I realised that the part about loving her is just something I'm saying because I feel I ought to. I don't love her. I feel obligated to her and deep inside me that small child is still trying to find the right thing to say or do to win her approval, but I don't love her.

Oh, @Lighthouse... I do feel for you. That sounds horribly familiar. When I could still talk to my mother on the phone, she used to do this too. It didn't matter what the reason for ringing was, sooner or later (usually sooner) she would drag the conversation round to family disagreements from when I was little and in which I had no part, and just go over and over the same old things that had been done, both real and imagined. I always felt utterly miserable after speaking to her. Why do they do it? And she never wanted me to have anything to do with the relatives involved, and used to give me the dissappointed voice and face if I did. It wasn't my disagreement...

Just had a listen to the Tori Amos track, btw. Good call.

@Saidtheshark - When my Mum died, I felt relief. Relief that she could't be nasty any more, that I would no longer have to call her or visit each week and most of all that I wouldn't have to pretend that I loved her. The only sadness I felt was that our relationship hadnt been different, but none for the loss of her. YES. Exactly.

today I dug out an old playlist - Tori Amos, Silent All These Years - started playing.

it seems like a good song for emerging from FOG. "Yes, I know what you think of me/you never shut up...

years go by/will I still be waiting
for somebody else who understands"

my sister's family are almost NC so she has been saying to me to reduce the calls even more, but then any call that happens will start with "OMD how dare you, you never call us anymore"....argh.

I can see why people move, far, far away.

Yes, thank you Ophelia

I'm relieved people can talk about their relief somewhere, thanks OP for starting this thread.

I'm going to say it out loud too. When my Mum died, I felt relief. Relief that she could't be nasty any more, that I would no longer have to call her or visit each week and most of all that I wouldn't have to pretend that I loved her. The only sadness I felt was that our relationship hadnt been different, but none for the loss of her. It's very liberating to be able to say it actually.

Sorry if that sounds brutal, I have been devastated at the loss of others - friends and family - but not her.

OMD
I have been having a lovely day off and my mother has just been on the phone being such a misery, I don't even know how to explain it.

I actually feel like crying now!

She has literally spent 45 mins on the phone moaning about stuff that she mis-remembered from 20 years ago (regarding planning permission on the place we used to live, so beyond irrelevant)

and then moaning about a TV show

and then telling me some desperately miserable story from her childhood.

I asked if she was all right and she said "yes, this is conversation, it's not miserable."

I cannot listen to this for another 20 years.

Wow, wonderful people on this thread. I read the updates and feel like less of a monster every time.

@Poudre, I know exactly what you mean about beginning to wonder if you've slipped into another reality where the situation is just going to go on forever. My mother has become very ill since I started posting on here, and the nurse at the home said she could die in the next couple of weeks...but we've heard this so many times. It's cruel, to her and to us.
Being "devoid of backbone" is horrible, isn't it? It's so frustrating when you have an opinion, and so many things you'd like to say...but all you can do is either nod and smile non committally or burst into angry tears. Which make you angrier.
I think @Lighthouse may well be right, that you have to negotiate a no man's land of, "Is it really over?" And of course there's all the officialdom to deal with as well. I hope you soon find peace.

@Lighthouse, well done on being so honest with your Dad! That cannot have been easy.
I don't so much not want to feel relieved as have this deep conviction that I shouldn't. But I do know that, hard as it is to admit to myself...I will be so glad when she's gone. As for which is worse...That's a very good question.
for you all.

@Poudrenez

I wonder if relief might take a while to arrive. The sympathetic friend I spoke with said something like "I waited so long for his death and then it didn't seem to matter" but now, months later, she says freely that she is relieved.

I think most of us have a sense of not wanting to feel relief. I had a bereaved colleague who popped in late one night because she was on leave and needed something from her desk. I said "sorry for your loss" and she said " I know you say that to be kind but don't worry, I'm so glad about it. I came in late hoping not to see anyone". I think she had four years of her mum in a home, with dementia.

As I get older, I see more palpable relief. You might have a sense of not being out of the woods yet?

I mentioned upthread that a friend's mum died suddenly, we all loved her to bits. Even my parents were fond of her! I had today off to help my friend with some probate stuff. (She has a useless sibling who is no help). My friend is so sad and it got me thinking, I wonder what's worse?

Your feelings are very common....

@Fuckknuckle I am totally devoid of backbone

This really struck a chord with me. Growing up around a father who chose a second wife that didn't like me has done this to me too.

Just thought I would check in as I now have proof that this actually does end. My father died last week, and in the lead up I was honestly starting to question reality, and whether or not my 'care journey' would finish. It has felt like an eternity.

Oddly annoyingly I can't say I feel the sweet relief I was anticipating. Just nothingness really.