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Original poster

I am deliberately not namechanging. This is ugly. Or going to be. (Division of assets after my parents pass away)

79 replies

QuintessentialShadows · 09/04/2012 23:33

I dont know where to start.
I am in my parental home for Easter, back in Norway.
My sister just left.
My father is wealthy. He lives alone, is disabled, mum is in a nursing home due to dementia.

It turns out that, it seems that my sister is plotting to get this house.

I told her in Christmas that long term, me and dh would not be opposed to moving back here and taking over the house. It is old, big, ramshackle, on three floors, many rooms, very awkward, and cost a fortune in bills. But it has space for all our outdoors gear and sporting equipment, can house a large campervan next to the garage, etc. The schools nearby are nice. We are a family of 4.
My dad would be devastated if the house "left" the family.

My sister is a single parent on disability benefits with one daugther, with ME (this is relevant). My sister has scoliosis and arthritis, and currently lives in the canaries, due to the weather. This house is in the bloomin Arctic.

I have just been told that my sister approached my dad after Christmas, after I told her we were keen to move into the house in future, that she wants the house and offered to "buy" it from him cheaply.
My dad also told me that my sisters daughter let slip this summer that the house was possibly worth 400k, according to her uncle (dads brother) and that they would help her get it for herself.

Another relevant fact is that 10 years ago, my sister, who could not stand our uncle, the last few months of his life started to pay him real attention. She never bothered about him before. Whereas I would always spend time with him because I loved him, and she told me she loathed him. The result was that he left her a significant amount of money in a safe deposit box in town, kept away from his will.

She is a cunning cow that will think nothing of walking all over me.
When I was a teenager, me and her went on a holiday to nice. I got a really bad food poisoning. She bought lots of books. She wanted to go to the post office, to send the books home, to ensure her suitcase was lighter. She told me that she would help me with mine, as I was ill, if her suitcase was lighter. She said we needed to go by cab to the post office, due to me being ill. She did not need me at the post office, she spoke fluent French. I was in bed at the hotel feeling awful, and she dragged me out and into a cab. She told me I had to pay the cab journey with all the books to the post office. Because I was ill, and she would have walked unless I came with her. On the way back to the hotel, she found another bookshop. And went straight in, to buy more books, as she now had room in her suitcase. She did not help me with my suitcase, but I paid for the cab fare to the post office, and for sending her books home.
She has a good full time job. I had saved up for 6 months, and had a summer job, to pay my share of the holiday and have pocket money.

Now she seems to be plotting to get the house. I dont know what to think and what to do. I told my dad today that Maybe it is best he makes a will, and stipulate that my sister gets the house, and make it fair. Because I know he is fair, and always have wanted to be fair to the two of us. I told him I only have one sister, and I dont want any relationship to be ruined by her plotting to get the house so maybe it is better if she actually gets it.

This was actually sparked by us finding a box of needlework after my grandma in the attic. She sat back and let me chose some the tablecloths, volunteering that I have the ones she had admired the most the following day when we found them, with dad present, making a song and dance about me getting the "best ones", and eventually taking my pile of tablecloths with her to Spain, "by mistake".

I am possibly not thinking clearly, I have had wine, and I am tired. But what do I do?

It is not about the house. She can have the house. I just hate that she is plotting and making intrigue to get it, behind my back, and with dad still alive and living here, after I have told her I would be keen to have it at some point in the future, thinking she would not be able to neither look after it nor pay its upkeep. I would be happy to not have it. I just feel that again I am betrayed. And I am sad that she appears to not give a shit about me, and that greed always seem to come in the way. Sad

OP posts:
danceswithfools · 10/04/2012 07:58

I may be speaking out of turn as I don't know you, but I find it odd that you and your sister seem to be deciding what to do with your parents property when they are both still alive. For reasons I don't want to go into here I expect to inherit nothing and if I wanted to I could challenge this as it is unfair. But that would mean causing upset with my parents and siblings and what is the point? Your parents property belongs to them and not you or your sister. If I were you I would accept that you may inherit nothing and concentrate on enjoying your dad's company and supporting both your parents in their remaining years with you.

Original poster
QuintessentialShadows · 10/04/2012 07:54

To be honest, if you have a paralyzed dad in a wheelchair after a stroke, and a mum with dementia in a nursing home, it would be odd not to try work out what is going to happen. Especially when there is no will. I imagine my mum will inherit everything, and the assets seized and by the council, this happens if somebody owns property but is not of sound mind.

Moredecai, it was pretty alien to me too, until now! I thought that until now, considering she lives in Spain, and cant live here for health reasons, she lasts only a week or two before her joints start aching and she goes all "stiff", we could at some point in the future live in this house, and the flat on the lower ground floor be available for my sister and her dd to use, in addition to me buying her out! I did not think it was an issue.

If my father had wanted the house sold, it would not even come up. But he is very proud that he has made the drawings, made a model, that the house is all his dreams come true, that he has himself built the cabinets, and done lots of work to it. It is his pride and joy. He does not see that cracks in the brick work, the peeling paint, etc. I guess to him, the house is like pictures. It has been vastly extended as the family grew, it had a lower ground floor flat where my uncle used to live, and a granny annex in the loft where my grandma used to live. It is a massive 3000 sqf house. Not that much other wealth, as my dad is 85, and been in a wheelchair after a stroke 10 years ago.

I honestly thought I was doing the family a favour by taking this on. I imagine it is going to cost several annual salaries to make repairs to it!

I have the pictures, we found photos of the bombing of Narvik in the attic, my uncle took them. I will scan them all and take care of them. All I want is some of my grandmas needlework, I cant imagine me wanting any of my parents stuff. Sad They have been dealt a horrid blow, health wise, and I dont even want to think about all this.

I dont need the house, it is not about the house. I just feel hurt that she is telling my dad one thing, me another, and getting her daugthers aunts and uncles involved, whereas normally she is not on speaking terms with them.

Maybe I am over thinking it.
In a way, I should be relieved she wants it. It puts less pressure on me.

OP posts:
frenchfancy · 10/04/2012 07:35

I think a will is needed otherwise some of the estate is likely to pass to your mum. She is still alive and even with a pre nup she is still the spouse.

see www.norjus.no/visartikkel.asp?art=254 for overview of Norwegian inheritance.

Threads like this want me to spend all my money whilst I'm alive.

MordecaiAndTheRigbys · 10/04/2012 02:12

I'm here long enough I've seen her threads and it's not a go honest Smile it's just alien to me. My sisters can have whatever my parents have, all I want are the photographs And I'll be happy to copy them and return them. I'm sorry you are having problems with your sister though OP. seems to me like ye are both gunning for the same thing for different reasons and you should both sit down with the da and tell him the importance of a will and leave it at that. Is that a possibility?

joanofarchitrave · 10/04/2012 02:06

well, the OP has posted lots of threads in the past about her parents and their health Mordecai (no reason why you should know this). having a will IMO is about not being grasping. The OP has said that her Dad has expressed an opinion about what he would like to happen re the house. If he does hold an opinion like that, he needs to make a will or the chances are it won't happen. It's not grasping to want him to put his wishes in writing.

MordecaiAndTheRigbys · 10/04/2012 01:57

It's all quite grasping thoug isn't it? Get a will, claim your inheritance. It's only your inheritance if they leave it to you. I wouldnt give a flying fuck, a house is a house, nothing more. I'd be a bit more upset about my parents.

Ghoulwithadragontattoo · 10/04/2012 01:53

I honestly wouldn't worry about it. These things drive families apart and it's not worth it. If you inherit something in due course from your Dad that's great but if not you haven't lost anything as you don't currently have it. I do think this sudden "plotting" by your sister stems from what she doubtless thought of as plotting when you said you'd want the house in due course.

namechangingagain · 10/04/2012 01:44

Get a will 50/50 split - Market value on death valued by 3 estate agents - no moving in until cash transfer of 50% takes place.

mathanxiety · 10/04/2012 01:37

If the father is wealthy aside from wealth bound up in the house, then it might be possible to divide the estate in such a way that the sister gets cash or assets outside of the house while Quint gets the house with the flat going for the niece's use; that might be equitable depending on how much the other wealth amounts to (or even not depending on that, because a house pretty much depends for value on what someone is willing to pay for it...)

mathanxiety · 10/04/2012 01:33

I think what makes the difference is that the sister has made it clear that she would sell the house if it was hers while Quint would live there if she were to own it -- and the father has made it clear that he wants the house to stay in the family.

The sister has already conferred with an uncle to try to establish the market value of the property.

lisaro · 10/04/2012 01:32

Don't be ridiculous elephant. I'm on an English speaking site. And yes it was one 'error' that I asked about. Not nit picking at all, it's perfectly reasonable to ask for an explanation. I wasn't rude, I didn't express disbelief, I asked a (once again so it sinks in) a perfectly reasonable question regarding contradictory information in the op.

MordecaiAndTheRigbys · 10/04/2012 00:47

Can I ask what is the difference between her wanting the house and your sister wanting the house?

And that's a genuine question btw, my mum is having an issue with her mothers estate, I can't imagine this ever being an issue with my sisters and it would horrify me if my dc's acted like this especially if I was still alive .....

ElephantsAreMadeOfElements · 10/04/2012 00:40

lisaro, Quint hasn't contradicted herself in the OP except by once, in the paragraph that begins "When I was a teenager" (which some might think gives a reasonable idea of timescales), saying "has" when it's clear that if using formally correct grammar she'd say "had" (and even so, "has" would have been perfectly acceptable in colloquial spoken English).

How about you write your future nit-picking posts in your no doubt fluent Norwegian and Quint can pick up on any minor grammatical errors as evidence that you are hiding sonething?

joanofarchitrave · 10/04/2012 00:26

A will is essential, provided he discusses it all with you both, preferably with other people there.

Otherwise I would bet my bottom dollar that you will both end up in court. I have seen it happen - person X made a will but kept the provisions quiet, died unexpectedly, and beneficiaries A and B spent two years and much of the estate fighting said will. And will obviously never speak again, despite the fact that they are the two people person X loved most Sad.

He might make the will, perhaps, if he could be brought to see that it is the only chance of you both maintaining a relationship in the future.

pippop1 · 10/04/2012 00:26

It's nothing to do with what you or your sister own now or where you live or how many children. It's only to do with what your father wants to happen to his assets. That's all.

pippop1 · 10/04/2012 00:24

Make sure that neither of you go to the lawyers with him when he makes a will. It would be awful if one sister went and the other accused her of influencing your father. Let him find his own lawyer (or perhaps he already has one that he knows) so it's all as fair as possible.

It might be best if you don't know what's in his will. A copy can be left with the lawyer and one in a bank.

I have heard of a will being found by one sibling in a parent's house after a death and that sibling tearing it up as it does not favour them. Dying intestate (without making a will) was more beneficial for the sibling (i.e. the parent had left majority of money to one sibling and not the one that found the will).

There's an old saying "Where there's a will ....there's a relative".

50:50 is the only fair way. If the house has to be sold to do this, so be it.

SundaeGirl · 10/04/2012 00:18

Sorry my post was a ramble but you got the drift: a will should mean a lot less strain between you and your sister because your father's wishes will be clear.

Original poster
QuintessentialShadows · 10/04/2012 00:16

I hear you.
He needs to have a will.
You are right, it is only happening because there is no will.

OP posts:
SundaeGirl · 10/04/2012 00:14

misdirecting even [Blush]

SundaeGirl · 10/04/2012 00:14

You might not like this but: you are miss directing you anger. Really, your father should have cleared all this up and it is on him to do it now. Ask him not to make a will. Say you will not try to influence what he puts in it but you do need him to make one.

This is not your sister's fault, it isn't, your father should take responsibility for his assets or this (or similar) would happen in anyone's family.

Original poster
QuintessentialShadows · 10/04/2012 00:10

I would never actually have thought about taking over the house at all, if it was not for my father saying he wanted me to.

Only last year, I was moving heaven and earth to help him find a suitable flat to move into near my mums nursing home, to make it easier for him to visit. But he told me he did not want to move. He did not want me and dh to go back to London, he wanted us to come live with him.

These thoughts are not mine, they were initially his.

OP posts:
Original poster
QuintessentialShadows · 10/04/2012 00:07

Sophie, that is pretty much what I told my dad today. Make a will, make it fair, let her have the house. Much as I would want to live here with my family one day, and possibly live there with him, as he has asked me in the past, I cannot deal with this sort of shit. I just want peace, headspace and get on with my life without this.

OP posts:
Original poster
QuintessentialShadows · 10/04/2012 00:06

Just to clarify, my sister lives in Spain, she owns property there. She also has a house an hour drive from my parents, it is a 3 bed detached house which has been let for the last 5 years. She is putting it on the market this spring.

OP posts:
SophieNeveau · 10/04/2012 00:05

Seriously, cut her out, if she isn't robbing you of inheritance, it will be your time, peace of mind, family life and health, no inheritance is worth it, let her have it.

Original poster
QuintessentialShadows · 10/04/2012 00:02

Sorry, I was trying to make a "polite heading", I guess I bolsed it up.

No, he has no will. He figured if he died intestate, it would just be equally divided by my sister and I. He and my mum has a prenup, and her assets are next to nothing, so wont be affected by her dementia.

Well, Love. I love her a lot. She seems to always get the better deal though.
The books were just an example. Only last year she expected me to arrange her daughters confirmation, and host it at my house, and bake all the cakes, get all the napkins, table cloths, etc, in order, for her to just fly in the day before. She was most put off when i told her this was not convenient for me.

This year, she expects me to arrange my summerholidays around her housemove. She only saw sense when I told her summer term ends a month after Norwegian end of term.

This Easter, she expcted me and dh to spring clean her house for the Estate agents photographer. We knew nothing about this happening, until my aunt told me that she had asked them to come and help her, saying we would be there too. Whereas her own 17 year old dd, who could have helped, was at Easter camp, because she deserved a holiday, and not to spend a day cleaning.

I did not want to get it for free. I had several options in mind. The first was to live her together with my father, so that he did not have to move to a nursing home at all. It all depends on whether we return or not, and when. In any event, we would buy my sister out, at market value, to make it fair. Additionally, the house has a self contained flat. In my view, my sister and her daughter could use the flat any time they want to visit. She has plans to let it out, so that we have nowhere to stay if we ever wanted to visit my hometown, other than a hotel. In my plan, we both got to have the house, me the bigger part with my bigger family, and she the smaller part. She would still live 8 months of the year in spain. She wants the house as a student pad for her daughter, while she only lives there 4 months of the year.

OP posts: