Has the West been taken in by Hamas’ lies and anti Israeli narrative?

I never said criticising the actions of the Israeli government or rogue IDF members was anti Israel, but it's not as though posters just stick to criticising them is it? As I said before, plenty of posts get deleted for antisemitism - which doesn't happen when people just criticise the government or IDF.

I also gave the example of the current thread that starts with the OP posing the question, If the current Israeli government manage to expel all Palestinians from the land, should all Israelis be held culpable for not trying to stop it. That's an anti Israel thread. Like it would be an anti Muslim thread is someone questioned whether all Muslims should be held culpable for something a Muslim government could potentially do.

Do you think that the production team and interviewers that produced Naza 26 were under threat by Hamas too.
We will have a greater understanding one day. No doubt that there is many videos on mobile devices that will be available to the public one day.
The only way forward is a two state solution. One group doesn’t have the right to control another, they need a working solution with political parties who want peace and freedom for both sides. Not blood thirsty maniacs. It’s the one thing that the innocent Israeli people and Palestinian people have in common is they’re both ruled by blood thirsty people.

Describing the reality of the actions of the Israeli government, the Israeli terrorists and the IDF is not anti Israel. Why do you think that this is anti Israel?There are plenty of people who are pro the country of Israel and the concept of a Jewish country but who also hate the actions of the Israeli government, etc.

The statement is clearly factually incorrect. Do some research!

Update: I see that @LoremIpsumCici has helped you out here!

I'm pleased that you have acknowledged that there are concerns on both sides.

You seem to have misunderstood what @RedTagAlan meant.

I think the dreadful West send lots of money. Its a popular cause in the West above many others.

I think some people are misled when I hear them parrot untruths.

I understand people supporting the innocent victims in Gaza.

Hamas have profited well from the West.

Many things can be true at the same time.

"The UK is pledging a major new package of aid to provide much needed healthcare support to those desperately in need.
“We urge the government of Israel to listen to our call to action and take steps to end its unacceptable restrictions on Gaza.”
The package forms part of the £127m allocated to the Palestinian territories in the UK’s Official Development Assistance budget for 2026-27."

I merely pointed out criticism of Israel doesn’t equate to being Anti-Israel as your post conflated the two. I agree with you 100% that there have been antisemitic posts and posters coming out of the woodwork on multiple threads.

Unless you've read all 7,000 posts on those threads, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that none of them are anti Israel.

I haven't read all the posts of course, I stopped actively following those threads some time ago. But I do still glance at them occasionally and there are comments made that go beyond purely criticising government policy or rogue IDF staff. Some of the comments on the threads have been deleted for antisemitism. Some probably would get reported if the thread was looked at more widely but I think it's generally seen as a thread to avoid for anyone who isn't anti Israel. The clue is kinda in the title This is the reality of what Israel is doing now that they don't want people defending Israel on it.

Yes, this is true. It’s 10x greater for us. Although our small numbers do mean a bit of mathematical skew so to get a more accurate probability the calculation would need to be adjusted for similar sample sizes. It would also be useful to have granularity on types of hate crimes: Injuring a person is more serious than property damage is more serious than bomb threats is more serious than hate based harrassment online.

The government report combines assaults with and without injury for example. i think too the religion of the perpetrators should be recorded as well.

Criticism of the actions of Israeli government officials and military troops is not being “anti Israel”. I am very proIsrael but I am also one of its harshest critics. I love my two countries deeply, which means I care when I see either my countries going down destructive paths.

I definitely believe Muslims suffer hate crimes in the UK, of course they do.

The chances of a Jewish person suffering a hate crime is about 10 times higher, according to statistics.

The problems with victims feeling a reluctance/lack of trust with reporting hate crimes applies to both Jewish and Muslim victims.

I'm sure that thread will start up again but even if it doesn't, there were still 7 threads with the same title that did little but criticise Israel.

I can name other current threads but it's kind of pointless listing them all when we both know there are always threads criticising Israel.

There is one currently containing conspiracy theories that Israel leaders knew the country was about to be attacked in advance of 7/10/23 and allowed it for their own reasons.

There is another one that starts with the OP posing the question, If the current Israeli government manage to expel all Palestinians from the land, should all Israelis be held culpable for not trying to stop it.

That’s not how statistics work. You also need to consider the demographics of various areas and where crimes are happening. For example, more than 50% of British Jews live in London, of less than half the hate crimes happen there, the data will be skewed. One reported hate crime can also affect a large number of people, again that makes your extrapolation entirely inaccurate.

I wouldn’t refer to those numbers as “actual data” either. I also haven’t seen anyone ask for underreporting of rape v other crimes to decide if one is worse than the other. Which is just as well, because that data doesn’t exist.

And as with the rape data, someone who wishes to deny it happens will decide the source is rubbish, or biased, or anecdotal, or……

Then there is the problem that as with most things non white, the amount of research carried out into these types of things is tiny.

The government website states there is known significant underreporting. The Women’s Muslim Network’s survey information shows about 80% goes unreported. You also have to consider cultural norms, and whether Muslim women in particular are less likely even to tell their own family of an incident.

In any case, I don’t see any benefit in playing one off against another. Hate crime is abhorrent and it doesn’t make any difference who it happens to.

they do this with sexual abuse which they think is heavily underreported so cross reference to other data sets to try and uncover what is really happening so it’s not unreasonable for there to be an estimate at least to indicate if it is a problem or not

You want evidence of something that by its very nature can’t be recorded in order to believe it doesn’t happen?

Has been full for weeks no new thread started. You've named one thread kind of proves my point

What anti Israel threads?

There are dozens of threads such as This is the reality of what Israel is doing now.

Part 7. That's 7,000 posts mostly just criticising Israel.

There is a lack of trust of the police from a lot of people experiencing crimes. I asked for actual data that this leads to more under reporting of hate crimes from Muslim victims compared to other victims such as Jewish ones.

The climate is anti semetic in the political arena due to the size of the Muslim population in my view. Sadly I think the reporting is anti Israel and I believe that this deliberate,

There is quite a lot of information showing a lack of trust of the police, particularly among young Muslims. Things like the discriminatory use of stop and search and the use of the Prevent programme to target the community have led to it.

Exactly. Just the same as many Germans did when the horrors of the holocaust we’re made obvious to them after WW2, just as some denier will still do today.

Jewish people would have good reason not to trust UK authorities as well. Is there any data to back up your belief that the Muslim community has less trust of UK authorities when it comes to being victims of hate crimes?

I think you should have put a full stop after "any assault is wrong". The "but" undermines the message that any assault is wrong.

I think the idea that a lot of it is propaganda is making way for plausible deniability. I didn't know what was really happening, I was told that it was propaganda, if I had known I would never have said the things that I did etc etc.