(Lack of) US Iran Peace Agreement Part 5

I disagree.
I think that the WH Regime and Sec of War in particular, have the mindset of a business entity that is too big to fail. There is less importance on not making mistakes because there will be no criticism/fall out even when costly mistakes are made.

In spite of evidence, the WH has still not accepted any responsibility for the killing of 120 primary aged children, and 36 adults in Minab.

Thinking modern day war is like a video game without responsibility or consequences irl.

I.don't think the military or politicians think like that but TBH I think that's a view a lot of the general public take.

As a result they maybe find it hard to understand that genuine mistakes might still happen ..

I read the same sources as you @notimagain and it seems to be down to negligence.

Do what do you think was the reason for the school bombing?

A reason is the explanation or justification behind that event, so can be abstract or subjective.(eg as given in pp, 'fog of war').

A cause is the direct source or origin of an event. Causes are typically tangible and concrete. (eg use of outofdate maps, negligence, poor leadership, lack of training)

For starters - Wot the UN said.

Me - There was no reason, just causes.
Carelessness to the point of actual negligence in relying on answers to what were probably lazy AI prompts. Hubris. Brown lives matter less.
Thinking modern day war is like a video game without responsibility or consequences irl.

@TopPocketFind

The odd targetting mistake is again something completely different than to what happened to the school bombing.

So what do you think was the reason for the school bombing?

I have not said that te UN are beyond criticism or can never be disagreed with. That is just a cop out imo.

The odd targetting mistake is again something completely different than to what happened to the school bombing.

As for not being outraged about Iranian protesters being slaughtered, wtf.
How dare you suggest that.

We had those accusations thrown at us from the beginning. It's tiresome, lazy and untrue.

Well given Iran has just been nominated to the U.N. Committee for Program and Coordination I think it would be reasonable to maybe harbour suspicions about just how objective the UN really is.

@TopPocketFind ,

‘I think the UN is better postioned in deciding what can be classed as a war crime and what cannot.’

Whilst I respect the UN’s expertise, I don’t think that they are beyond criticism and never can be disagreed with. The Overton Window has massively shifted on civilian casualties during war time and I think that it has gone too far and is unrealistic now. I know lots disagree. I think it is too easy to criticise those making war, until you are personally involved and then, I suspect, we would be far less squeamish about our military making the odd targeting mistake.

‘I am astounded how easily people say the school bombing was just a casuality of war. Imagine it had been the other way round.’

I would say people care about this in line with their sympathies. A lot of people just don’t seem that outraged about the Iranian protesters slaughtered. Even if the exact number is argued over, it is a minimum of several thousand.

And in the Russo-Ukraine war, we are all outraged over the Russian targeting of civilian infrastructure but no one is talking about Ukraine’s drone strikes on Moscow, despite the pictures of the damaged apartment buildings with no obvious military targets anywhere near.

‘The US got rid of experienced military people/intelligence for daring to questioning Trump.’

Yes, agreed. Hegseth is a disaster. I would have no problem if Trump and him were prosecuted for war crimes.

Why?

I'm not sure the UN is better positioned at all, or objective these days.

I think the UN is better postioned in deciding what can be classed as a war crime and what cannot.

I am astounded how easily people say the school bombing was just a casuality of war. Imagine it had been the other way round.

The US got rid of experienced military people/intelligence for daring to questioning Trump, Hegseth

‘If by war crimes you mean deliberately targetting non-combatants or combatamta who have surrendered then no argument from me, prosecute away.
OTOH chasing personnel through the courts because they have acted in accordance with information they had at the time is another matter. If those making targeting decisions are acting in good faith, and as far as they can tell iaw with the LoC then they shouldn't have to be worrying about the UN or others prosecuting them in the future.’

This is where I agree 100%.

We all want ruthless determined armies when we are threatened.

The U.S, as said in the Pentagon report, were doing 1,000 bombing runs daily. One went wrong due to faulty intelligence/AI. I just don’t think this is a war crime regardless of how sad the outcome was.

We have gone from being totally ruthless about war (2nd WW) to believing it is some kind of computer game where we can perfectly target the enemy whilst avoiding civilian casualties. No one will join an army where you can end up being prosecuted for doing your job to the best of your ability.

On the other hand, there are plenty of war crimes going on in the world where civilians are being killed and the intent is not in any doubt.

Absolutely, not only illegal it was evil, they were unarmed. Hegseth is a disgrace and "just following orders" is not a defence.

FFS during both World Wars both sides rescued their "enemies" that were sunk.

" The distress call came in to Sri Lanka’s maritime rescue coordination centre just after 5am. The ship in trouble, they determined,, was well within Sri Lanka’s obligation for rescue, being just over 19 nautical miles off the coast of the southern city of Galle.

The navy swiftly mobilised and, by 6am, the first search and rescue boat was on its way, another soon close behind. It was hard to see through the thick morning mist but officers onboard kept their eyes peeled for a ship in the distance.

Instead they found a spooling slick of oil on the sea’s surface. Dozens of survivors held on to life rafts and bodies bobbed in the waves, but the vessel was nowhere to be seen. IRIS Dena, an Iranian warship on its way to a friendly port call in Sri Lanka, already sat on the bottom of the Indian Ocean.

It had taken under three minutes for Dena to sink after it was struck by the world’s most powerful torpedo, a Mark 48, launched by the US navy nuclear-powered submarine USS Charlotte lurking silently nearby. At least 84 people onboard were killed .....

......The ship was more than 3,000km (1,864 miles) away from the Gulf and not on an active mission when it was hit by the US submarine, ..."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/15/us-attack-iris-dena-undermines-indian-security-ties-iran

@BelleHathor

This thing with shooting up the boats should not be allowed to vanish. I would say this is a case where it should maybe go down through the ranks, because there were people potentially following illegal orders there.

And the thing is, because SOLAS laws were being broken, it should really be the Coastguard doing the prosecuting. But here the Coastguard were potentially involved.

Republican Representative Thomas Massie introduced articles of impeachment against Pete Hegseth last week. The House were meant to vote of them however in what some call a sleight of hand House speaker Mike Johnson sent the Reps home early (he also repeatedly changed the schedule to avoid Epstein release votes). They won’t reconvene until November 9th after the midterms.

[From Google AI]

On September 15, 2026, Republican Representative Thomas Massie introduced eight articles of impeachment against Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. Massie introduced the resolution on the House floor, accusing Hegseth of abusing his office, bypassing Congress, and executing unlawful or unconstitutional military actions. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
Summary of the 8 Articles of Impeachment
According to the resolution details published on the Official Press Release from Rep. Massie's Office, the articles accuse Hegseth of the following high crimes and misdemeanors:

Article I: Waging War Against Iran Without Authorization – Accuses Hegseth of launching and maintaining hostilities against the Islamic Republic of Iran starting on February 28, 2026, without a declaration of war, statutory authorization, or an imminent threat/national emergency as required by Section 2(c) of the War Powers Resolution of 1973. [7]
Article II: Defying Congressional Directives to Remove Forces – Charges Hegseth with continuing the war in Iran despite both Houses of Congress passing a concurrent resolution directing the withdrawal of U.S. forces. [8]
Article III: Violating War Powers Time Limits – Accuses Hegseth of keeping U.S. forces engaged in Iran past the strict 60-to-90-day statutory termination window mandated by the War Powers Resolution. [8, 9]
Article IV: Ignoring Laws Minimizing Civilian Casualties – Charges Hegseth with failing to adhere to legal and operational frameworks meant to protect civilians during military campaigns. [8, 10]
Article V: Extrajudicial Killings at Sea – Alleges that Hegseth unlawfully bypassed maritime law enforcement by using military force against suspected drug smugglers in the Caribbean Sea and Eastern Pacific, resulting in at least 221 deaths. [4, 8]
Article VI: Suppressing Free Speech – Accuses Hegseth of abusing his power by retaliating against Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly, who had posted a video advising troops on their constitutional right to refuse illegal orders. [11, 12, 13]
Article VII: Unlawful Kidnapping of a Foreign Leader – Focuses on Hegseth's role in "Operation Absolute Resolve" in January 2026, during which U.S. Special Forces apprehended and extracted former Venezuelan dictator Nicolás Maduro and his wife without proper legal authority. [12, 13]
Article VIII: Unauthorized Warfare in Yemen – Accuses Hegseth of executing "Operation Rough Rider" (a bombing campaign in Yemen) without congressional approval, violating mandatory reporting guidelines, and causing significant civilian casualties. [4, 12, 13]

Current Status
Because Massie introduced this as a privileged resolution, House leadership would normally have been forced to call a vote within 48 hours. However, Speaker Mike Johnson adjourned the House early for a seven-week recess, a move Massie publicly labeled a "Hegseth holiday" intended to shield Republican members from taking a controversial vote before November. [2, 14]

[1]
[2]
[3] https://www.pbs.org
[4] https://www.theguardian.com
[5] https://massie.house.gov
[6] https://journalrecord.com
[7]
[8] https://massie.house.gov
[9] https://www.youtube.com
[10]
[11] https://www.npr.org
[12] https://www.cbsnews.com
[13] https://www.foxnews.com
[14] https://thehill.com

Yup. And for me any potential charges for that should go up. To the guy who is pushing AI, who done a political ideology purge, who is now ordering testosterone checks on the military. And who done all he can/ is doing all he can to cover the whole thing up.

The potential war crime we are talking about is the bombing of a school during school hours.

When the orders come down, the blame should go up.

If by war crimes you mean deliberately targetting non-combatants or combatamta who have surrendered then no argument from me, prosecute away.

OTOH chasing personnel through the courts because they have acted in accordance with information they had at the time is another matter. If those making targeting decisions are acting in good faith, and as far as they can tell iaw with the LoC then they shouldn't have to be worrying about the UN or others prosecuting them in the future.

The Police have to obey the law, and there are still Police. In fact, we can see with ICE in the US what happens when politicians call for them to be immune from the law. If the police can manage to recruit, I don't see how the military cant.

On "the other side" doing war crimes. If they do it, does that mean the "good guys" need to do it ? For what advantage ?

Turkey says it could help meet Saudi military needs under defence pact

Turkish foreign minister Hakan Fidan said on Saturday that Saudi Arabia may have military needs due to the ongoing attacks by Yemen's Houthis and that Turkey was ready to help under a trilateral defence pact that also includes Pakistan.

"We see there are very serious attacks on Saudi Arabia's territorial integrity, sovereignty. We have an alliance agreement in our pact. We are in serious solidarity on this point... They may have some military needs, especially on some technical issues. We would have no issues in meeting these," Fidan told broadcaster NTV.

The joint defence agreement, dubbed the "Mecca Joint Defence Agreement", signed last month stipulates that an armed attack on any one of the three countries will be regarded as an attack on all of them.

Fidan said that it was unacceptable for Saudi Arabia to be made a part of the US-Iran war as it had no desire to join the conflict. He added, without elaborating, that proposals have been conveyed to all sides to end the fighting.

"There are many initiatives, but the sides need to accept these," he said. "There are new proposals, I hope they accept them. Otherwise, the crisis was tolerated until a certain point, but the economic reflections have started to exceed the point of being tolerable."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-us-war-trump-iran-riyadh-airport-houthis-yemen-b3052932.html

In extremis one potential downside is you have no effective armed forces.

OTOH your opponent, who cares not one jot about the UN and war crimes, can carry on without really caring what they target....

Iran sends US 7 conditions for talks, awaits Trump response
Qatar conveys Tehran’s terms as Iran separately outlines three demands to end the war

Iran has conveyed seven conditions to Washington for the start of negotiations, its top security official said on Saturday, opening a potential diplomatic path even as President Donald Trump weighs whether to resume major attacks on Tehran.
Mohsen Rezaei, secretary of Iran’s Supreme National Security Council, did not disclose all seven conditions l, according to the reports. Separately, he has identified three demands for ending the war — an end to fighting on all fronts, the release of frozen Iranian assets and an end to the US naval blockade.
“The United States, if it wants to extricate itself from the predicament it has created, must accept Iran’s rights and conditions,” Rezaei said.
He did not publicly spell out all seven

However, Rezaei separately identified three demands for ending the war: An end to fighting “on all fronts”, the release of frozen Iranian assets and an end to the US naval blockade.
He said Qatar had conveyed Iran’s terms to Washington and that Tehran was awaiting Trump’s response.
The developments provide one of the clearest indications that diplomatic channels remain active despite months of fighting and increasingly sharp military threats from both sides.
Iran and the United States have continued indirect contacts since the collapse of the Islamabad memorandum of understanding, while Qatar and Pakistan have played mediation roles

https://gulfnews.com/world/mena/iran-sends-us-7-conditions-for-talks-awaits-trump-response-1.500680991

Quote "No one would join the military or agree to make targeting decisions if one careless slip up could lead to imprisonment."

Go on then. Explain the downsides to this scenario.

Quote " If every time a missile goes astray or AI yields a bad decision (as seems to have happened this time), it is called a war crime, then there will be literally no nation who has fought a war who hasn’t committed a war crime."

And that would be a bad thing because ...... ?

Is that not called being answerable for one's actions ? Check, double check... triple check and document before you hit that button... because if YOU get it wrong, you are going to jail for a long time. There is no fog of war when planning a pre-emptive strike from 100s of miles away.

Ben Roberts-Smith, the Australian comes to mind. Was his arrest wrong ?