Anti Semitism to increase after the government sides with Islamists

To me it's what is implied by "There has to be an existing state for the possibility of state extinction".

However, I accept that I might have misunderstood, hence the request for clarification.

I find it's easier to understand what people mean if I ask them.

I think this question of ‘right to exist’ is a bit of a strange one. The Italy or Russia analogy is quite good here. All countries (except maybe islands) came into being by fighting and one religion/race/ethnicity triumphing over others. And no one questions America/Australia/Peru etc.

However, Israel was formed more recently and in some people’s parents’ generation and in many people’s grandparents’ generation. If I were a Palestinian whose grandparents had been hounded from their home, I would question Israel’s right to exist. There is a genuine grievance there that any civilised nation should address.

OTOH, if you aren’t a Palestinian or know any, then I would question why you would question Israel’s right to exist, other than antisemitism. There are far too many white South Africans etc (may sound bizarre but I know a few) who have massively benefited from historical apartheid in SA and, rather than addressing the ongoing effects of this, for some reason transfer their guilt into constantly attacking Israel.

This debate often goes in circles because of how the phrase is used, but from a perspective of international law, countries themselves do not have an inherent right to exist, they either exist or they do not. Israel is a universally recognized country that exists. Rights belong to people, not to state structures or lines on a map. For example, Czechoslovakia was a recognized country that existed for decades. It no longer exists today, but the people who lived there still exist on the same land, safely and with full human rights, within two new countries, Czechia and Slovakia. From the perspective of Israel, it is the people, both Israelis and Palestinians, who have an absolute, unconditional right to exist, to have safety, and to live in dignity.

Where did pp say Palestine should never be a state, under no circumstances?

Just to clarify your position, are you arguing that Palestine should never be able to achieve statehood under any circumstances?

Questioning whether Crimea should be Russian is not the same as saying the whole of Russia shouldn’t exist.

Thank you @StopMeStopMeStopMe .
Yes it was cross purposes and being deliberately muddies.. And of all the marches I have been on the focus has never been on Israel as a state but instead their current actions of state extinction. I am sure there are those who agree with Hamas and Hezbollah but just like the extremists within the Pro Israel movement who believe all Palestinian children should be slaughtered their voices thankfully are not the majority and can be ignored.

And yes it is state extinction what Israel are doing because the country I am in recognizes Palestine as a state. Because if other posters think that a requirement is for all countries to recognize a state for it to exist as I think they implied then it does muddy the argument quite a lot about Israel.

God forbid anyone links those not wanting the one Jewish state in the world to exist with antisemitism.

Nothing to see here...

Yeah. I was just making a pedantic point of order. That is all.

My point is, that if the State of Israel was located in Nebraska, and Nebraska was now the Country of Israel , formally known as the US state etc, then the 29 countries that do not recognize Israel just now, most likely would IMO.

And that is important thought experiment I think, because it might remove accusations of antisemitism.

No one is questioning their right to exist

Not true.

Thanks for clarifying.

I don’t think @Martymcfly24 was saying these numbers aren’t significant, but that you were both at cross purposes about who you were referring to.

Why would France and Canada care if Burnham 'clawed back the Islamo left vote from the Greens'? What's their motivation for joining in?

They argue whether Russia should exist in Crimea.

Why should Israel be set up in Nebraska? Do you think its current location has been totally randomly chosen?

No one ever does, or would. It's only ever Israel isn't it.

Or exist within their boundaries and stop trying to expand to every one else's.

Exactly. Russia launched a war of aggression on their neighbours, yet is anyone arguing whether Russia should exist?

Yes I agree that many people including those on pro- Palestinian protests in the UK are not calling for Israel not to exist and are not motivated by hatred of Jews.

Some people hold extreme views though, some even support the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah and think they are freedom fighters. Some enjoy chanting "from the river to the sea" and pretend they don't know it's a slogan calling for a single state "free" from ... who do you think?

Unlike @Martymcfly24 I think these numbers are significant.

Has Italy had to deal with continuous terror attacks from their neighbours, over decades? Why are you only mentioning one side of the conflict, as if Israel was the sole aggressor?

And also do you agree that many people on this thread arguing against Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians are not calling for Israel not to exist and are not motivated by hatred of Jews?

There has to be an existing state for the possibility of state extinction.

Do you agree that many people, for example those on pro-Palestinians protests in the UK (not every single person on these, but in general) are not calling for Israel not to exist and are not motivated by hatred of Jews?

Because recognising Israel's right to exist should not be any more complicated than recognising Italy's right to exist.

Shouldn’t be more complicated, sure, yet it seemingly is, according to the 29 UN member states who currently refuse to recognise the state of Israel.

Glad to have confirmed you recognise Israel's right to exist. Just like Italy's right to exist and every other country that currently exists.

Again in response to the post about "pro Palestinian Activists"

The only thing they are arguing against is state extinction actively being carried out by Israel.

Not engaging any more with those who cannot discuss in good faith.