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Conflict in the Middle East

Anti Semitism to increase after the government sides with Islamists

463 replies

mids2019 · 09/09/2026 06:25

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-16115899/Miliband-accused-Jews-UK-danger-Chief-Rabbi-Tory-leader-react-Labour-sanctions-Israeli.OrlaNdo memorial

The government's decision to sanction Israel, a democratic ally in the ME, surely is a reward to all those that have spouted Jew hate on our city streets. If the government is willing to distance itself from Israel won't this be seen as further motivation for the radical Islmist left to continue their campaigns in the UK. It's a shameful moment and it will take a lot to rebuild relations with Israel.

Chief Rabbi and Tory leader react furiously to Labour sanctions

Britain's Chief Rabbi said a trade ban on Israeli settlements in the West Bank was 'truly a dark day for British Jews'.

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-16115899/Miliband-accused-Jews-UK-danger-Chief-Rabbi-Tory-leader-react-Labour-sanctions-Israeli.html

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RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 09:45

Babyboomtastic · 10/09/2026 09:25

You're not comparing like for like.

You're right that most Israeli citizens are not terrorists/settlers. Equally most Lebanese people are not Hezbollah for example. Also, not all those who are technically employed by Hezbollah will be terrorists or share their ideologies (a cleaner in a Hezbollah funded hospital is there to clean, a doctor there to treat patients)

Then there'll be a large sector of both societies which have links with settlers/Hezbollah, whether that's business links, friends/family etc.

So in both of those societies, not everyone is terrorist, though many people will have some form of link.

You said:

"Is it just Israeli terrorists you want the UK to trade with or do you want to trade with ISIS, the Taliban, Hezbollah etc too?"

There aren't any Israeli proscribed terrorists we trade with though are there.

So you are conflating actual proscribed terrorists with a group of awful settlers who aren't proscribed terrorists so we now fall out with a country that isn't made up of terrorists who give us terrorists information, trade in medical goods etc 🤔 odd to do that for a bunch of settlers that the country should deal with themselves. Other countries dont fall out with us because we haven't got our gang culture and high rate of stabbings of young males sorted out here. Also awful but other countries don't take umbridge that we haven't sorted it and more and more young people die at the hands of gangs.

Babyboomtastic · 10/09/2026 09:25

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 08:42

The vast majority of people in Israel are not terrorists. Settlers are awful but are a small number that need addressing.

The vast majority/all of ISIS, Hamas, The Taliban, Hezbollah are terrorists. Surely, you realise that 😳

How on earth can you conflating Israelies in general with those proscribed terrorist organisations. Is there some obsession going on here that means you don't realise that most Israelies don't live in the settler area. It would be like sanctions on the UK due to Tommy Robinsons lot or the Palestine Action lot.

You're not comparing like for like.

You're right that most Israeli citizens are not terrorists/settlers. Equally most Lebanese people are not Hezbollah for example. Also, not all those who are technically employed by Hezbollah will be terrorists or share their ideologies (a cleaner in a Hezbollah funded hospital is there to clean, a doctor there to treat patients)

Then there'll be a large sector of both societies which have links with settlers/Hezbollah, whether that's business links, friends/family etc.

So in both of those societies, not everyone is terrorist, though many people will have some form of link.

iwishitwouldstartraining · 10/09/2026 09:14

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 08:42

The vast majority of people in Israel are not terrorists. Settlers are awful but are a small number that need addressing.

The vast majority/all of ISIS, Hamas, The Taliban, Hezbollah are terrorists. Surely, you realise that 😳

How on earth can you conflating Israelies in general with those proscribed terrorist organisations. Is there some obsession going on here that means you don't realise that most Israelies don't live in the settler area. It would be like sanctions on the UK due to Tommy Robinsons lot or the Palestine Action lot.

If (god forbid) The UK government supported Tommy Robinson and he had decided to take over the Faroe Islands, I can see that there might be targeted sanctions.

StopMeStopMeStopMe · 10/09/2026 09:10

Newbutoldfather · 10/09/2026 09:03

@StopMeStopMeStopMe ,

‘The correct comparison would be if Tommy Robinson or “the Palestine Action lot” were driving people of a different ethnicity out of their homes, murdering them and stealing their land and the UK government was refusing to do anything thing to stop them.’

It’s a lot worse than that. Several Israeli ministers (Smotrich, Ben G’vir, Katz etc) are actively encouraging them.

Apply that analogy to the UK!

Good point

StopMeStopMeStopMe · 10/09/2026 09:09

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 08:50

There are lots of conflicts going on in the world. I don't raise any above others. Someone dying in Sudan isn't less than someone dying in the West Bank, or as a result of gang violence in South America (51% of homicide rate in 100,000). There is so much violence in the world that goes ignored.

My opinion is that the MAJORITY of people have enough to concern them in their day to day lives here to concentrate on. Its a conflict thousands of miles away. Concentrate on the problems here. It isn't high on the radar of the vast majority of people. That's it really.

I think you are underestimating, whether deliberately or not I don’t know, the level and strength of feeling in the UK about Israel’s actions in Gaza and the West Bank.

A simple internet search will show you numerous polls indicating that a high percentage of the population believe that Israel is committing genocide, for example. I won’t link any specific ones as probably each will be unacceptable evidence to you. The overall picture is clear.

I don’t understand why having their own day to day concerns would stop people having an opinion on a the actions of a country we, including our politicians, have many ties with?

iwishitwouldstartraining · 10/09/2026 09:07

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 08:50

There are lots of conflicts going on in the world. I don't raise any above others. Someone dying in Sudan isn't less than someone dying in the West Bank, or as a result of gang violence in South America (51% of homicide rate in 100,000). There is so much violence in the world that goes ignored.

My opinion is that the MAJORITY of people have enough to concern them in their day to day lives here to concentrate on. Its a conflict thousands of miles away. Concentrate on the problems here. It isn't high on the radar of the vast majority of people. That's it really.

From a realpolitik point of view, the conflict in the Middle East has been particularly difficult to ignore since March this year.

DeterminedRat · 10/09/2026 09:06

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 08:42

The vast majority of people in Israel are not terrorists. Settlers are awful but are a small number that need addressing.

The vast majority/all of ISIS, Hamas, The Taliban, Hezbollah are terrorists. Surely, you realise that 😳

How on earth can you conflating Israelies in general with those proscribed terrorist organisations. Is there some obsession going on here that means you don't realise that most Israelies don't live in the settler area. It would be like sanctions on the UK due to Tommy Robinsons lot or the Palestine Action lot.

Do you even know what these sanctions are? They are targeted sanctions, they aren't aimed at 'Israelis in general', they aren't sanctions 'on Israel' Blush

DeterminedRat · 10/09/2026 09:05

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 08:50

There are lots of conflicts going on in the world. I don't raise any above others. Someone dying in Sudan isn't less than someone dying in the West Bank, or as a result of gang violence in South America (51% of homicide rate in 100,000). There is so much violence in the world that goes ignored.

My opinion is that the MAJORITY of people have enough to concern them in their day to day lives here to concentrate on. Its a conflict thousands of miles away. Concentrate on the problems here. It isn't high on the radar of the vast majority of people. That's it really.

So you'd like the UK to lift all sanctions? The UK added more designations to their Sudanese sanctions list in July of this year for instance. Should they just not bother because Sudan isnt really on the radar of most people? Fuck it, doesn't matter if these people/companies are responsible for pain, suffering, terrorism, let's trade with them and finance their violence? It's so far away does it really matter?

Newbutoldfather · 10/09/2026 09:03

@StopMeStopMeStopMe ,

‘The correct comparison would be if Tommy Robinson or “the Palestine Action lot” were driving people of a different ethnicity out of their homes, murdering them and stealing their land and the UK government was refusing to do anything thing to stop them.’

It’s a lot worse than that. Several Israeli ministers (Smotrich, Ben G’vir, Katz etc) are actively encouraging them.

Apply that analogy to the UK!

Newbutoldfather · 10/09/2026 09:01

What the UK have done is very performative. It affects a tiny amount of goods and won’t even come into force for months. Personally, I think we should have gone a lot further.

It made for a good speech and Israel deserves every word of it.

Israel’s response was also performative. They need our arms more than we need their exports.

I, and a lot of my Jewish liberal friends, welcome this. I think the chief rabbi, who is very closely connected to Israel, doesn’t speak for the whole Jewish community (maybe orthodox Jewry?).

StopMeStopMeStopMe · 10/09/2026 08:56

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 08:42

The vast majority of people in Israel are not terrorists. Settlers are awful but are a small number that need addressing.

The vast majority/all of ISIS, Hamas, The Taliban, Hezbollah are terrorists. Surely, you realise that 😳

How on earth can you conflating Israelies in general with those proscribed terrorist organisations. Is there some obsession going on here that means you don't realise that most Israelies don't live in the settler area. It would be like sanctions on the UK due to Tommy Robinsons lot or the Palestine Action lot.

The sanctions are to put pressure on the government to deal with the terrorist settlers.

The correct comparison would be if Tommy Robinson or “the Palestine Action lot” were driving people of a different ethnicity out of their homes, murdering them and stealing their land and the UK government was refusing to do anything thing to stop them.

Do you think sanctions against the UK by other countries would be legitimate in that scenario or would you think some strange obsession was being displayed if other countries decided to show their disapproval?

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 08:50

CaptainMyCaptain · 10/09/2026 08:19

Do you think that, in any way, compares to the destruction of Gaza? Has your city been razed to the ground recently?

There are lots of conflicts going on in the world. I don't raise any above others. Someone dying in Sudan isn't less than someone dying in the West Bank, or as a result of gang violence in South America (51% of homicide rate in 100,000). There is so much violence in the world that goes ignored.

My opinion is that the MAJORITY of people have enough to concern them in their day to day lives here to concentrate on. Its a conflict thousands of miles away. Concentrate on the problems here. It isn't high on the radar of the vast majority of people. That's it really.

StopMeStopMeStopMe · 10/09/2026 08:44

And no, I wasn’t referring to the Brexit referendum. In the referendum 52% of the vote was to leave the EU, not 52% of the electorate.

I’m not understanding your “didn’t believe it would happen” comment in reference to the Brexit referendum but that’s not relevant to this thread.

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 08:42

DeterminedRat · 10/09/2026 08:23

Is that why there are sanctions on lots of other groups/countries too? Is it just Israeli terrorists you want the UK to trade with or do you want to trade with ISIS, the Taliban, Hezbollah etc too? Nobody including British Muslims are handwringing about sanctions against Muslim majority countries, of which there are many. Why so much handwringing over this? Once they begin obeying International law the samctions will be lifted, that's how it works. It's completely in Israels control.

The vast majority of people in Israel are not terrorists. Settlers are awful but are a small number that need addressing.

The vast majority/all of ISIS, Hamas, The Taliban, Hezbollah are terrorists. Surely, you realise that 😳

How on earth can you conflating Israelies in general with those proscribed terrorist organisations. Is there some obsession going on here that means you don't realise that most Israelies don't live in the settler area. It would be like sanctions on the UK due to Tommy Robinsons lot or the Palestine Action lot.

StopMeStopMeStopMe · 10/09/2026 08:37

CaptainMyCaptain · 10/09/2026 08:18

I would if it was known there a low turn out (because many people didn't believe it would happen - presumably you're referring to Brexit).

We know what the “turnout” equivalent in this poll was though and it was high. And no-one can be thinking it won’t happen as the poll question was about something which has already happened.

52% approve
17% disapprove

so 69% turnout

31% no opinion

Anti Semitism to increase after the government sides with Islamists
iwishitwouldstartraining · 10/09/2026 08:36

DeterminedRat · 10/09/2026 08:26

The idea that a pharmaceutical company would take a moral stance and say no, we will lose lots of money and stop selling our products to all of these countries who have sanctioned settler terrorists because we love Israel more than money is laughable to be honest.

I would distinguish between loyalty to country and loyalty to the dodgy policies of a particular government.

StopMeStopMeStopMe · 10/09/2026 08:30

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 08:17

I see that everything Palestine is an obsession with some whereas crimes committed by various groups elsewhere in other countries are pretty much ignored 🙁

That doesn’t answer the question I asked @Bringemout . Would you care to give your answer to that question?

DeterminedRat · 10/09/2026 08:26

iwishitwouldstartraining · 10/09/2026 08:19

I think the different in perceptions might be because e.g. Teva has headquarters in Israel but manufactures drugs all over the world (only a minority in Israel).

I suppose the Israel government might ask them to shut down their global operations, because they are getting pushback against illegal settlements, but it would seem to be rather self sabotaging.

The idea that a pharmaceutical company would take a moral stance and say no, we will lose lots of money and stop selling our products to all of these countries who have sanctioned settler terrorists because we love Israel more than money is laughable to be honest.

StopMeStopMeStopMe · 10/09/2026 08:25

localnotail · 10/09/2026 07:50

As much as I generally tend to support Israel in this ongoing conflict (while also feeling for Palestinians and their plight) I consider West Bank situation very different to Gaza. West Bank settler violence is horrendous and must stop.

I doubt it would affect Antisemitism as its already at the very high level. However, antisemitism/ anti-Zionism* and hatred of Israel is not a new thing in the UK, especially among "left" contingent. It was there all the time. Its just more obvious now.

*Zionism is a nationalist movement that began in late 19th-century Europe with the goal of establishing a Jewish homeland, and today supports the continued existence and development of the State of Israel. Anti-Zionists basically deny the existence of Israel/ would like it to cease to exist - I assume together with its inhabitants. Which in my books is quite antisemitic.

Do you characterise criticism of the settler activities in the West Bank as anti-Zionism or antisemitism?

LoremIpsumCici · 10/09/2026 08:24

iwishitwouldstartraining · 10/09/2026 08:19

I think the different in perceptions might be because e.g. Teva has headquarters in Israel but manufactures drugs all over the world (only a minority in Israel).

I suppose the Israel government might ask them to shut down their global operations, because they are getting pushback against illegal settlements, but it would seem to be rather self sabotaging.

Yes, completely agree. There is no risk to medical supplies from Teva. Even if there were, we can find another company to take over their manufacturing plant in the UK. We have laws that allow us to seize a factory in the UK and have another contractor run it if necessary for national or economic security due to a foreign owned company refusing supplies or becoming a foreign actor on behalf of a hostile state.

DeterminedRat · 10/09/2026 08:23

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 08:17

I see that everything Palestine is an obsession with some whereas crimes committed by various groups elsewhere in other countries are pretty much ignored 🙁

Is that why there are sanctions on lots of other groups/countries too? Is it just Israeli terrorists you want the UK to trade with or do you want to trade with ISIS, the Taliban, Hezbollah etc too? Nobody including British Muslims are handwringing about sanctions against Muslim majority countries, of which there are many. Why so much handwringing over this? Once they begin obeying International law the samctions will be lifted, that's how it works. It's completely in Israels control.

iwishitwouldstartraining · 10/09/2026 08:19

LoremIpsumCici · 10/09/2026 08:07

I don’t believe that is correct.
We do export medications to Israel, but import isn’t in the top 5. Also they only account for 0.2% of imports so are 45th behind other countries we import from.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6a69cca0229c578debc1a817/israel-trade-and-investment-factsheet-2026-07-31.pdf

Edited

I think the different in perceptions might be because e.g. Teva has headquarters in Israel but manufactures drugs all over the world (only a minority in Israel).

I suppose the Israel government might ask them to shut down their global operations, because they are getting pushback against illegal settlements, but it would seem to be rather self sabotaging.

StopMeStopMeStopMe · 10/09/2026 08:19

Bringemout · 10/09/2026 05:21

I think it was a bloody stupid thing to do, not in britains interest and a sop to the people Labour thinks they may lose to the Greens and the Gaza MP’s. It is not serious politics, it reflects badly on Labour in terms of forethought, I think it’s exposed how utterly stupid they are. The British consulate is how we co-ordinate training of the PA, some NGO work, expect further consequences to British functioning through Jerusalem and on British intelligence co-operation (for example the Hezbollah plot which involved 3 tons of ammonium nitrate, I dread to think about if they hadn’t been found). It demonstrates how stupid they are, you can’t run a country on vibes. Andy Burnham’s statement about standing with the underdogs demonstrates how stupid he is, being smaller or weaker doesn’t make you automatically right, the Taliban were the underdogs, who thinks they were right?

There is no Genocide, the ICC have clearly stated they don’t have the evidence required to say it is. It’s brutal war but a country has the right to respond when it’s civilians are raped, mutilated and murdered. Unfortunately for Gaza Hamas does use civilian sites and has dug tunnels under Gaza which they use to launch attacks, all of that makes them legitimate targets. The reason Gaza looks like it does is specifically because of the tunnels, Israel is not unreasonable to want those gone given the cost inflicted on them by their use. Both Hamas and Israel are being looked at for war crimes. This doesn’t make the suffering of Gazans any less important but there is no getting around the fact that when you do what Hamas did then your group fully deserves to be stripped of the ability to do it again. Israel has no obligation to allow itself to be attacked, it’s first obligation is to it’s own security, it’s the most basic responsibility of a government, to secure it’s borders from threat (something which the fools leading Britain don’t seem to understand).

Having said that British Jews should not be grouped automatically with Israel. I understand why any Jewish person would feel this way about how Israel is being treated and I agree it’s all bloody stupid for probably different reasons. However you can’t disconnect British Jews from Israel when it comes to harassment etc (which I abhor, I think a lot of the pro Palestinian people are frankly disgusting in the way they behave towards and speak of Jews) and then reconnect them when it comes to actions the British government takes against Israel.

British Jews are obviously invested in the wellbeing of Israel for good reason and Jewish people are not a block but I think it’s difficult to make the argument simultaneously.

The basis of this sanction isn’t consistent with our attitudes towards other countries like northern cyprus which is occupied. It’s sloppy dog whistle politics with no substance and it will harm Britain and Palestinians more than it will harm Israel BUT and it pains me to say this because I believe Jews have experienced the worst overt racism I have seem directed at any group in the UK in recent history but I’m not sure it helps British Jews to link this with anti-semitism.

BTW I do think the left are bit too comfortable with islamists, I don’t get why they don’t understand that brown men can also be utter facists as well, they seem blind to whats going on. The number of idiots cheering on people like the Houthis while never no idea about how Yemenis have fled from them or what they are doing is bewildering to me. Or cheering on Iran while they mow down and repress their own people, or cheering on Hamas who as soon as the ceasefire was declared started shooting Gazans (they literally kidnapped two women the other day). Ì have literally spoken to people who want Iran to win so they can keep on funding the “resistance”. They would hold tens of millions of people across multiple countries hostage because they have such an unhinged hatred of Israel.

I think it was a bloody stupid thing to do, not in britains interest and a sop to the people Labour thinks they may lose to the Greens and the Gaza MP’s.

Yet 52% of the population approve (see above).

CaptainMyCaptain · 10/09/2026 08:19

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 08:17

I see that everything Palestine is an obsession with some whereas crimes committed by various groups elsewhere in other countries are pretty much ignored 🙁

Do you think that, in any way, compares to the destruction of Gaza? Has your city been razed to the ground recently?

CaptainMyCaptain · 10/09/2026 08:18

StopMeStopMeStopMe · 10/09/2026 08:14

If a party in an election received was voted for by 52% of the electorate, no-one would suggest they don’t have the support of the public.

I would if it was known there a low turn out (because many people didn't believe it would happen - presumably you're referring to Brexit).

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