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Conflict in the Middle East

Anti Semitism to increase after the government sides with Islamists

463 replies

mids2019 · 09/09/2026 06:25

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-16115899/Miliband-accused-Jews-UK-danger-Chief-Rabbi-Tory-leader-react-Labour-sanctions-Israeli.OrlaNdo memorial

The government's decision to sanction Israel, a democratic ally in the ME, surely is a reward to all those that have spouted Jew hate on our city streets. If the government is willing to distance itself from Israel won't this be seen as further motivation for the radical Islmist left to continue their campaigns in the UK. It's a shameful moment and it will take a lot to rebuild relations with Israel.

Chief Rabbi and Tory leader react furiously to Labour sanctions

Britain's Chief Rabbi said a trade ban on Israeli settlements in the West Bank was 'truly a dark day for British Jews'.

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-16115899/Miliband-accused-Jews-UK-danger-Chief-Rabbi-Tory-leader-react-Labour-sanctions-Israeli.html

OP posts:
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15
LandLaser · 10/09/2026 13:41

flowersplease · 10/09/2026 10:54

I really wish people, on both sides of the argument, would learn to differentiate between Jewish people and Zionists. Some of the most anti-Zionist people I know are Jewish, protesting against Isreal.

Being pro Palestine doesn’t make you an antisemite, being Jewish doesn’t make you Zionist- it’s really not that hard to grasp.

Edited to add: not all Jewish people living in Israel are pro Zionist even. I taught a lovely young man who had grown up in Israel and had estranged from his parents because he refused to do mandatory military service. There are Jewish people in Israel protesting against the government all the time.

Edited

The majority of Jewish people are zionists. You talk about zionism like it's a bad thing.

localnotail · 10/09/2026 13:25

StopMeStopMeStopMe · 10/09/2026 08:25

Do you characterise criticism of the settler activities in the West Bank as anti-Zionism or antisemitism?

It's a criticism of the current Israeli government and extreme right settler groups who are allowed to carry on. It has nothing to do with Jewish nation as a whole (so not antisemitism) and it has nothing to do with the existence of Israel as a whole (so not anti Zionism).

In my view Israel is about the only democratic and progressive country in its region, though of course I agree that it's role in the Palestinian conflict can not be ignored. I also believe Israel should continue to exist and its citizens should not be killed or displaced to make room for Palestinians (and vice versa)

Orangeyoucan · 10/09/2026 13:21

Slightyamusedandsilly · 09/09/2026 06:35

The government represent the nation. Most Brits are aghast at the Palestinian genocide. It's over time for the government to take action.

Just out of interest. What action do you think Israel should have taken in response to the massacre that happened on 7th October? If any?

flowersplease · 10/09/2026 12:59

DeterminedRat · 10/09/2026 11:51

And supporting Palestinians right to a state doesn't make you an 'Islamist' as the author of this thread(who seems to have wandered off) would have us believe.

Absolutely right, ridiculous post.

Squeezingwildoranges · 10/09/2026 11:56

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 09:45

You said:

"Is it just Israeli terrorists you want the UK to trade with or do you want to trade with ISIS, the Taliban, Hezbollah etc too?"

There aren't any Israeli proscribed terrorists we trade with though are there.

So you are conflating actual proscribed terrorists with a group of awful settlers who aren't proscribed terrorists so we now fall out with a country that isn't made up of terrorists who give us terrorists information, trade in medical goods etc 🤔 odd to do that for a bunch of settlers that the country should deal with themselves. Other countries dont fall out with us because we haven't got our gang culture and high rate of stabbings of young males sorted out here. Also awful but other countries don't take umbridge that we haven't sorted it and more and more young people die at the hands of gangs.

Difference is our army doesn't help out the gang members and stand by while they terrorise.

DeterminedRat · 10/09/2026 11:51

flowersplease · 10/09/2026 10:54

I really wish people, on both sides of the argument, would learn to differentiate between Jewish people and Zionists. Some of the most anti-Zionist people I know are Jewish, protesting against Isreal.

Being pro Palestine doesn’t make you an antisemite, being Jewish doesn’t make you Zionist- it’s really not that hard to grasp.

Edited to add: not all Jewish people living in Israel are pro Zionist even. I taught a lovely young man who had grown up in Israel and had estranged from his parents because he refused to do mandatory military service. There are Jewish people in Israel protesting against the government all the time.

Edited

And supporting Palestinians right to a state doesn't make you an 'Islamist' as the author of this thread(who seems to have wandered off) would have us believe.

Babyboomtastic · 10/09/2026 11:38

caringcarer · 10/09/2026 11:06

I read that figure somewhere but it was a while ago now and I can't recall where I read it.

Frankly, what does it matter? If Israel were the only provider of oxygen on this planet I still would still call out wrong, because that's the right thing to do.

RedTagAlan · 10/09/2026 11:33

caringcarer · 10/09/2026 11:06

I read that figure somewhere but it was a while ago now and I can't recall where I read it.

Handy that. I noticed you did not reply to my post debunking your claim, in a post I quoted you in.

Oh well.

iwishitwouldstartraining · 10/09/2026 11:07

HoppityBun · 10/09/2026 10:53

I find this also difficult I simply don’t know what to think, OP. I wonder if there are other people who are, like me, genuinely don’t know what to think about the dilemma that the Middle East poses.

I have dear Jewish friends who are on a wide ranging spectrum of approaches to Israel. Some have lived there, some have family there and visit often, some have for many years utterly condemned the stance that these Israeli government is taking on Palestine. It is so hard for them.

I also hold in me the horror of what happened to Jews in the holocaust. I entirely accept that other groups, such as Roma, homosexuals and those with disabilities, were also slaughtered. What concerns me so much about the approach that the Israeli government has taken over the last 10 years is that it is almost poking and stirring up antisemitism. Is that a deliberate tactic?

I now find myself in a position where I’m horrified that any subject on social media seems to have a pile of people who are blaming Zionists. And I say that entirely accepting that Israel / Judaism/ Zionism are all groups with different nuances that I can’t always hold in my head.

I think that the UK was culpable in the way that Israel was established, but I also think that Israel most definitely has a right to exist. I can’t stand the expansion of the borders and I have noticed that some of the most virulent and aggressive settlers are American. Their approach seems to be more American than Middle Eastern.

On the other hand, I know people who have gone out to observe in Palestine and in particular in Gaza and who have supported Palestinians on their daily trips into and back out of Israel in order to work. I’m also aware that there are Arab Israelis. I think what has happened to Palestinians is devastating and shocking and I would like to support them. I’ve watched videos of the destruction of Palestinian homes and seen settler families cheering as Palestinians are hounded out of their homes and their farms destroyed, which is contemptible..

The problem for me is that this seems to me to have become a binary matter: you either support one or you support the other and I just can’t do that.

I think the question of settlements is different.

It's less about whether you support one side or the other, and more about whether you want to abandon the idea of ever finding a solution.

Until recently the mainstream view was that everyone should be working towards a two state solution. Now the voices of people who just want to annihilate each other are much louder.

CoffeeAndACroissant · 10/09/2026 11:06

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caringcarer · 10/09/2026 11:06

iwishitwouldstartraining · 10/09/2026 11:03

Yes, but you said 75%

I read that figure somewhere but it was a while ago now and I can't recall where I read it.

Newbutoldfather · 10/09/2026 11:04

@flowersplease ,

I think you make some really good points, but it is a bit more subtle.

Most Jewish people are Zionist in believing that Israel has a right to exist in its original borders and remain Jewish. There are exceptions, but I think they are relatively few, especially when antecedents died in the holocaust (me, for example!).

Also, for religious Jews (not me), The Holy Land is fairly centred in the scriptures and ‘Next Year in Jerusalem’ is a common Jewish toast.

That doesn’t mean that most liberal Jews approve of what Israel is doing today. In fact, quite the opposite. Personally, I think that Israel has an obligation not to betray its liberal and tolerant ideals as a state, which is why Netanyahu’s government’s current behaviour is so egregiously awful.

iwishitwouldstartraining · 10/09/2026 11:03

caringcarer · 10/09/2026 10:54

Teva supply Thyroxine plus other commonly prescribed drugs.

Yes, but you said 75%

iwishitwouldstartraining · 10/09/2026 11:03

When asked by the BBC what message the plans sent to the likes of the UK and France, which plan to recognise a State of Palestine later this year, he said: "It's not going to happen. There will be no state to recognise."
In response to the move, the US State Department said "a stable West Bank keeps Israel secure and is in line with this administration's goal to achieve peace in the region."
But the UN and the EU urged Israel not to progress the plan.
The "EU rejects any territorial change that is not part of a political agreement between involved parties," a spokesman said.
UK Foreign Minister David Lammy said the proposal must be stopped.
"The UK strongly opposes the Israeli government's E1 settlement plans, which would divide a future Palestinian state in two and mark a flagrant breach of international law," he said.

This was all a year ago, and none of those 'urges' and 'rejections' made any difference.

flowersplease · 10/09/2026 10:54

I really wish people, on both sides of the argument, would learn to differentiate between Jewish people and Zionists. Some of the most anti-Zionist people I know are Jewish, protesting against Isreal.

Being pro Palestine doesn’t make you an antisemite, being Jewish doesn’t make you Zionist- it’s really not that hard to grasp.

Edited to add: not all Jewish people living in Israel are pro Zionist even. I taught a lovely young man who had grown up in Israel and had estranged from his parents because he refused to do mandatory military service. There are Jewish people in Israel protesting against the government all the time.

caringcarer · 10/09/2026 10:54

iwishitwouldstartraining · 10/09/2026 07:56

Teva make a lot of cheap generic drugs so if you measure quantity they might make up a higher proportion (although not sure where you would find the data) However 75% still seems very high…

Teva supply Thyroxine plus other commonly prescribed drugs.

HoppityBun · 10/09/2026 10:53

I find this also difficult I simply don’t know what to think, OP. I wonder if there are other people who are, like me, genuinely don’t know what to think about the dilemma that the Middle East poses.

I have dear Jewish friends who are on a wide ranging spectrum of approaches to Israel. Some have lived there, some have family there and visit often, some have for many years utterly condemned the stance that these Israeli government is taking on Palestine. It is so hard for them.

I also hold in me the horror of what happened to Jews in the holocaust. I entirely accept that other groups, such as Roma, homosexuals and those with disabilities, were also slaughtered. What concerns me so much about the approach that the Israeli government has taken over the last 10 years is that it is almost poking and stirring up antisemitism. Is that a deliberate tactic?

I now find myself in a position where I’m horrified that any subject on social media seems to have a pile of people who are blaming Zionists. And I say that entirely accepting that Israel / Judaism/ Zionism are all groups with different nuances that I can’t always hold in my head.

I think that the UK was culpable in the way that Israel was established, but I also think that Israel most definitely has a right to exist. I can’t stand the expansion of the borders and I have noticed that some of the most virulent and aggressive settlers are American. Their approach seems to be more American than Middle Eastern.

On the other hand, I know people who have gone out to observe in Palestine and in particular in Gaza and who have supported Palestinians on their daily trips into and back out of Israel in order to work. I’m also aware that there are Arab Israelis. I think what has happened to Palestinians is devastating and shocking and I would like to support them. I’ve watched videos of the destruction of Palestinian homes and seen settler families cheering as Palestinians are hounded out of their homes and their farms destroyed, which is contemptible..

The problem for me is that this seems to me to have become a binary matter: you either support one or you support the other and I just can’t do that.

iwishitwouldstartraining · 10/09/2026 10:53

Announcing the plan at a news conference with settler organisation Yesha Council Chairman Israel Ganz and Maale Adumim Mayor Guy Yifrach, Smotrich said the land had been given to the Jews by God.

I think there is general main stream support for the idea that Israel has the right to defend itself.

There is not support for the idea that a country can claim extra land because God gave it to them. You are getting into Putin territory there.

Newbutoldfather · 10/09/2026 10:50

@iwishitwouldstartraining ,

One thing that I feel Israel has done quite successfully is to sanitise Ben G’vir and Smotrich for international consumption.

It’s almost like ‘nothing to see here, these are a couple of mad extremists, nothing to do with us’!

Look at that BBC headline you linked to. The first two words are ‘far right’, almost to separate him from the Israeli government. He is a minister of state and Ben G’vir is a senior minister of state, in the cabinet.

Domestically, they are treated as serious ministers who decide government policy, one of which is ethnic cleansing.

I am sure Netanyahu is thrilled when we use the words ‘far right’ to separate Ben G’vir and Smotrich from the Israeli mainstream. If Netanyahu disagreed with them, he should sack them.

And our media should be careful about this kind of whitewashing of Israeli policy.

iwishitwouldstartraining · 10/09/2026 10:36

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 09:45

You said:

"Is it just Israeli terrorists you want the UK to trade with or do you want to trade with ISIS, the Taliban, Hezbollah etc too?"

There aren't any Israeli proscribed terrorists we trade with though are there.

So you are conflating actual proscribed terrorists with a group of awful settlers who aren't proscribed terrorists so we now fall out with a country that isn't made up of terrorists who give us terrorists information, trade in medical goods etc 🤔 odd to do that for a bunch of settlers that the country should deal with themselves. Other countries dont fall out with us because we haven't got our gang culture and high rate of stabbings of young males sorted out here. Also awful but other countries don't take umbridge that we haven't sorted it and more and more young people die at the hands of gangs.

In your scenario, I would very much hope that if UK government ministers were actively supporting gang culture and stabbings, there would be some push back from the countries that the rest of us thought of as allies.

DeterminedRat · 10/09/2026 10:31

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 09:45

You said:

"Is it just Israeli terrorists you want the UK to trade with or do you want to trade with ISIS, the Taliban, Hezbollah etc too?"

There aren't any Israeli proscribed terrorists we trade with though are there.

So you are conflating actual proscribed terrorists with a group of awful settlers who aren't proscribed terrorists so we now fall out with a country that isn't made up of terrorists who give us terrorists information, trade in medical goods etc 🤔 odd to do that for a bunch of settlers that the country should deal with themselves. Other countries dont fall out with us because we haven't got our gang culture and high rate of stabbings of young males sorted out here. Also awful but other countries don't take umbridge that we haven't sorted it and more and more young people die at the hands of gangs.

And you seemed to be conflating people who Ed Miliband described as terrorists with 'Israelies in general'.

I'm not sure why you are comparing gang violence with people who are attempting ethnic cleansing(again as described by Ed Miliband)?

You seem determined to down play terrorists who are ethnically cleansing illegally occupied land, this is what was stated by the British government as what is happening there. Only you know your motivations for that but you should probably take a while to examine them.

Babyboomtastic · 10/09/2026 10:19

RelaxAndDetox · 10/09/2026 09:45

You said:

"Is it just Israeli terrorists you want the UK to trade with or do you want to trade with ISIS, the Taliban, Hezbollah etc too?"

There aren't any Israeli proscribed terrorists we trade with though are there.

So you are conflating actual proscribed terrorists with a group of awful settlers who aren't proscribed terrorists so we now fall out with a country that isn't made up of terrorists who give us terrorists information, trade in medical goods etc 🤔 odd to do that for a bunch of settlers that the country should deal with themselves. Other countries dont fall out with us because we haven't got our gang culture and high rate of stabbings of young males sorted out here. Also awful but other countries don't take umbridge that we haven't sorted it and more and more young people die at the hands of gangs.

The only reason they're not prescribed terrorists is for political reasons, that Israel have been allies. The behaviour has been that of terrorists, and if you read the statement made by our prime minister on this he categorises them as terrorists.

These are also terrorists which are supported and protected by the government and encouraged in what they do.

Neverstopwondering · 10/09/2026 10:09

StopMeStopMeStopMe · 10/09/2026 08:14

If a party in an election received was voted for by 52% of the electorate, no-one would suggest they don’t have the support of the public.

We weren't talking about that. It was about public support of the action taken by govement. I was just surprised that only 33% fully support it. Had thought it would be more like what you said.

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