Disengagement 710 - Ethnic cleansing!

It's a policy leading up to an election.

In the upcoming election everyone who voted for BG's party could be morally questionable.

Everyone else who didn't vote for his party cannot.

You'll have no way of telling who voted for who.

So you'd be holding a whole population responsible for the sins of a few.

Something anyone with 2 braincells to rub together accepts unconditionally.

And if you need an example, you do not believe all Palestinians should be held responsible for Hamas's crimes. Most of us agree, I haven't read every comment.

So then you apply the same standards to Israelis and come back to what we all keep telling you.

No. Israelis as a whole could not be held responsible if this plan goes ahead.

I really don't see what else needs to be said or why this dumpster fire of a thread is still going on. And I'm bloody helping! Argh.

It's ok to admit you were wrong.

So you suggest that Israelis should protest to stop Jewish hate and attacks elsewhere.

Do you not understand that isn't really their problem and you are now making Israelis culpable for antisemitism worldwide rather than the fact racist fuckwits live everywhere and countries should stamp out racism wherever and whenever it occurs.

At this stage I am wondering if there is anything you won't twist to make Israelis culpable in one for or another. Have you thought even for a second that you could actually be wrong in blaming the average person for the actions of their government.

You can't be serious. You think someone who walks by, sees a crime being commited but does nothing, that person is also commiting a crime?

No, the law absolutely does not recognize this inaction. Think it through. Doing nothing about stopping a crime is not a crime.

Are you talking about being an accessory to crime? Thats completely different as is definitely not inaction. It's specifically action in assistance of crime or concealing a crime- ( while not committing the actual crime itself. )

But using this totally false argument, you would have those people who simply do nothing held responsible for a crime?

All the while insisting it is wrong to hold all Palestinians accountable for Hamas, ( which everyone on here agrees with ) you continue to see all Israelis as accountable for a crime the government may commit in the future?

Can you honestly not see the double standards?

That’s pretty much sums up the OP position 👏

The ‘collective moral culpability’ comment wasn’t at all clear as the post you were responding to mentioned Republicans but also Irish people in general.

No Doris the dental assistant and Muhammad the builder are culpable for all their politicians actions if they don't go out on the street and protest. Even though they are on an hourly rate of pay, have childcare and they personally know several people that have been injured in suicide attacks or rocket strikes.

Also Jews all over the world should have to face prejudice and attacks because nothing is more important than collective moral culpability that won't change anything in Gaza or stop the conflict.

I mean peoples arguments could not be more clear. No idea why you don't just roll over and accept their push for a more hateful world. How very unreasonable you are.

I was talking about Republicans - not “all Irish” . You’ve misrepresented my points .

Antisemitic acts across the world have risen massively during this conflict. The notion of “collective moral culpability “ for all Israelis will feed antisemitism.

Jewish people are across the world are currently facing a massive rise in violent antisemitic acts .
In my own city Jewish schools and synagogues have security guards. Anti semitic graffiti proliferates. There have been attacks even on Jewish ambulances ( orchestrated it turns out by Iran!) .
Are you suggesting that Irish people suffer in a similar way?

Thanks for that. Fair enough if that is your opinion.

I don't agree with you though. As I said in earlier post, I think Israeli society shares responsibility, as does the wider community for not taking action, indeed for causing a lot of division and violence in the region over a very long time.
I'm not a lawyer, but I believe that someone who stands by and does nothing while a crime is being committed eg a rape or a physical attack can also be charged as an accessory or similar. I'm not suggesting that Israelis are charged but just that the law does actually recognise this inaction, as described, as a crime.

Are you suggesting that the majority of Irish people did not voice their opposition to the IRA? Are you suggesting the Irish government supported the IRA? What point are you trying to make regarding collective moral culpability? Considering the British army and British goverments colluded with the loyalist paramilitary groups I think it is best not to derail the thread with this topic. You seem to shoehorn in a dig at the Irish at every opportunity.

This is such a misrepresentation of this thread it’s laughable.

There are some truly despicable posts on here. As you say, several posters have written clearly racist posts, @AnyfoolcanknowThepointistounderstand in particular. The fact that @SharonEllis, who says she has been involved in anti racism for 40 years, has said nothing is very worrying. Anyway, they've proven my point about collective blame of Palestinians immediately and also earlier points about how Islamophobia is tolerated while comments which only criticise Israel's actions are jumped on as being antisemitic.

But …. What happened to Collective moral culpability?

None of my replies has been quite as silly as the OP suggestion .

I don’t blame Palestinians overall for the actions of Hamas.
That is why I’m in this thread - this suggestion that ALL Israelis ( including the many who suffered and are bereaved after 7/10) are morally culpable for Palestinians suffering is outrageous.

I’ll tell you who is morally culpable for the suffering of Palestinians :
Hamas
The Iranian government
Right wing Israeli settler movement
Netanyahu’s government

I wasn't referring to specific people Twigs. To deny that there has been racism against Germans because of the actions of their government/the government of many decades prior would be very dishonest.

The Republican political party in Ireland is Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein were the political wing of the IRA .
The IRA were/ are terrorists who had links with other terrorists including PLO in Palestine.
The murals in Belfast include sayings such as “IRA /PLO = one Struggle”

This link is also interesting ( and uses the term “republicans” which you objected to)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12539372

The OP, correct me if I'm wrong @Squeezingwildoranges, appears to have opened a discussion about collective responsibility. She is not seeking to target bereaved families in particular. No one is minimising anything. You are being melodramatic.
I notice that you didn't respond to the two examples I gave above showing that this is not an unusual situation. The Palestinians, who have suffered far, far more overall, are frequently blamed for the actions of Hamas.

Republicans are pretty radical.
The vast majority of Irish people aren’t republicans.
Are you getting the term republican mixed up with nationalist maybe ?🤔
Republicans are considered the very hard-line or extreme nationalists, the ones that would use violence or did in the past. I’m not sure if you’re Irish too but that is how the term is understood by most Irish people in my experience.
I’m Irish and wouldn’t be at all insulted if people dissed republicans, would be happy to join in.

And I know why the Republican Irish love to fly the Palestinian flag .
They both shared the same arms suppliers and criminal/ terrorist contacts / criminal quid pro quo etc

What does this mean then? Who are 'they' if not Irish people who are republicans and Palestinians?

Aside from when the world cup was on, I see the Palestinian flag more than any other.
You may consider it a 'bizarre claim', but it is true.