Iranian clerics call for assassination of Trump and Netanyahu

“but men of power cynically using their influence to achieve a desired outcome - murder.”

But yet you fail to see that Trump and Netanyahu are men of power. Not necessarily men of religion, but men of power nevertheless, and they have done exactly the same thing. Commit murder.

It is pretty difficult to defend Trump and Netanyahu. And if someone can't defend Trump and Netanyahu, is it not natural to instantly think of why they can't defend them ?

See my bit above where I mention the idea of "prison justice" and the "meh" factor. This is not on the same scale as the Fatwa against Rushdie. I don't think so anyway. If I started a thread saying the prison death threats against some recently jailed con were outrageous, do you really think nobody would mention why the con is in jail ?

Not touchy at all. What a strange thing to say on a discussion forum.

You didn't make it clear at all.But if you want to make the point it's both then maybe an extra sentence in your post would clarify that. Its not much in a lengthy post.

And to add, when I say ‘leaping to the defence of the goverment’, I meant the deflecting and whataboutery - posters talking about Trump and Netanyahu’s iniquities, for example, rather than expressing upset at so-called men of religion telling their followers to commit murder.

I wasn’t thinking anything about you using the word ‘government’. That feels like a correct term to me, sadly.

Eh??

I made it VERY clear that I was talking about both ‘sides’.

I gave one example for illustrative purposes. I chose the one I see more of, given the relative weight of numbers of posters ‘for’ each ‘side’ generally on the board. But it could have been the other way around - I don’t agree with it when either side does it - but I wasn’t going to add both, in the interest of not making the post longer.

I’m not sure how much clearer I could have been that I was talking in the general.

The touchiness you have demonstrated - twice now - does indeed prove my point.

I have not seen anyone jump to the defense of the Iranian Government here.

Maybe you think me using the word "government" instead of "Regime" means I support them ? Well I don't.

To me, the whole thing is getting close to some criminal being sentenced to prison, and other cons saying "he need watch his back". Now I don't agree with cons saying that, I think prison should be safe. But there is still a bit of me that is meh about it.

I didn't make your point for you.

If you wanted to speak about both sides doing it you should have said that instead of just choosing one side so you may have made your own point. If it doesn't help anyone to be like that, why did you start it.

Even by thinking one side is favoured is just feeding into the "point".

It does always surprise me when posters seem to leap to the defence of the Iranian regime. It seems as reasonable to me as leaping to defend the Russian or North Korean regimes.

I’d be interested in a discussion with some detail on the regime, its factions, its funding of terrorist organisations, whether the opposition are gaining traction, etc.

Fair enough.

Iranian clerics bad.

End of thread really. What else is there to say ?

My Iranian friends tell me the hardline clerics there are dangerous nutjobs. That’s as much as I know about it, other than what I read on the news.

That said, I don’t know how much we need to know about it to say that inciting the faithful to commit murder is evil, and the polar opposite of holy. No matter who they’re telling their followers to off.

I know. That was my point.

And you’ve just made it for me in leaping to do a ‘what about Israel’!

My point was about whataboutery and people leaping to the defence of their favoured side and looking to set up their pet side in opposition to ‘the other side’, rather than discussing each issue, event or party on their own merit. It wasn’t to say one ‘side’ is worse at the whataboutery than the other, even though there is a clear bias on the board as which ‘side’ is favoured.

I suppose it mirrors the real life polarisation of the situation. I do find it frustrating, though. It just doesn’t help anything or anyone to be like that.

And the problem with this subject is that there is not a lot of info out there about it. I daresay other forums have folk that know about the religion in Iran. I don't know about it. And I am not going to spend years studying just so I can post here.

Every single time somebody posts about an atrocity committed by Hamas, for example, the replies start what about Israel. You could bet your last pound that this will start within three replies to the OP.
@BunfightBetty and every single time someone posts an atrocity committed by Israel the replies start about October 7th so it's swings and roundabouts really .

Is it whataboutery when the subject is a threat on the lives of Trump and Netanyahu ?

In my post above I listed other times when Iranian Clerics threatened Trump. and other instances of other threats to Trump. Before that I posted about other religious batshit groups who threaten to kill. I have not mentioned Hamas or Judaism.

I am not picking sides re religious batshit mad killers, because I am against it all. I am against religion being used in this way. In fact, I am nearly against all religion in general because of crap like this.

This whole middle east thing is all about religion.

And the thing is about the Iranian clerics is that I can't find much about it. Details such as translations of what they said etc (Likely cos I have limited web). So there is not really that much to post about on them. And it appears nobody is posting much detail about it.

There is nothing stopping your good self or anyone else posting details about the clerics for us all to read.

Quote " It's only when people are able to rise above all that, that these problems will be solved."

Well yes. And it would be nice if Trump/ Netanyahu and co could shut up about religion. I missed out Iran there because it is a theocracy, so by definition near everything they say is religious. Israel and the US however, they are supposed to be secular.

I am against theocratic governments too by the way.

I am not at all anxious about Islam being shown to have religious nutjobs. I am atheist and against all religious nutjobs.

Great, so why bring Christianity into it? What was your motivation there?

I am always really dismayed when people do the whataboutery about religion. It's all over this board, it's so depressing, because it is a nutshell version of the wider Israel/Palestinian conflict, and perpetuates the bigotry where Judaism is pitted against Islam, as if they are enemies.

I get that in many idiots peoples' minds they are enemies, but that's the issue, isn't it? They shouldn't be.

Every single time somebody posts about an atrocity committed by Hamas, for example, the replies start what about Israel. You could bet your last pound that this will start within three replies to the OP.

It's like people divide themselves into 'them and us' categories and pick a side they root for aggressively and one-sidedly, as if they're rooting for their favourite football team. So many posters only see and empathise with the humanity of their pet side. It's really deflating to read.

It is not a virtue to take one side wholesale and uncritically, even if they have the same religion as you, or you perceive them to be the underdog (don't get me started with the whole fatuous nature of the omnicause, and the way people swallow that wholesale without doing any critical thinking themselves)

We don't need to pit Christianity against Islam, or Islam against Judaism.

It's only when people are able to rise above all that, that these problems will be solved.

I am not at all anxious about Islam being shown to have religious nutjobs. I am atheist and against all religious nutjobs.

I have said above, Iranian clerics have been doing this stuff for decades, and I am saying look, the world is full of religious nutjobs coming out with this stuff, and no need to go all the way to Iran to find them. They are among us already.

And really, when have Iranian clerics not called for the death of people. Here is one from Aug last year:

2,000 Iranian clerics bless Trump assassination | Iran International (iranintl.com)

June last year :

Trump, Netanyahu Targeted Under Iranian Fatwas (americanfaith.com)

March this year :

Two senior Iranian clerics issue fatwas urging revenge over Khamenei’s death | Iran International (iranintl.com)

Did you miss the foiled plot against Trump last month at his UFC cage fight last month -

Feds reveal details of alleged plot to attack White House UFC event with explosive drones - CBS News

There were arrests over that one. From CNN-

According to court documents, the group Proper joined was focused on some form of accelerationism — an ideology that believes the collapse of society should be expedited in order to form a better world.

Some members said in the chats they didn’t want people connected to Jeffrey Epstein running the country, according to the complaint, while Proper was also focused on targeting lawmakers who were pro-Israel.
Other members expressed vehement antisemitism as well as the belief the government is run by the elites who sacrifice babies and are being protected by President Donald Trump.

19-year-old would-be attacker of UFC event sought to use drones and was referred to police by his parents, FBI says | CNN Politics

If we are supposed to be outraged against every nut who threatens Trump we would all burst with rage.

Edit to add - Whataboutism? Yes, I suppose it is. But in this case I reckon valid. Because death threats against Trump are not unusual.

Hell, James Comey his ex FBI director was arrested for that -

How does James Comey's 'threat' against Trump compare to other defendants charged by DOJ? - ABC News

So you’re anxious in case people think it’s only Islam with murderous nutjobs who incite their followers to commit murder and make out it’s part of their religious duty?

I don’t think that’s ’standard fare’ for any religion that I know of.

This is why there’s a thread about this incitement to commit murder. The fact it has come from religious leaders and been dressed up as a holy act is unusual and worrying.

The fact it’s against Trump and Netanyahu doesn’t excuse it, or lessen how horrendous and worrying it is.

I think it could get pretty tedious if MN threads fill up with whataboutery, with posters anxiously jumping on to say ‘well these other people do it too’ every time somebody posts something perceived as negative about a person who is from their favoured group. It also reads as an attempt to deflect from focus on the matter at hand (ie the topic of the thread).

So we can fairly and comprehensively wrap this thread up by simply declaring that this latest statement (which will soon be in the past) is just religious leaders being religious leaders. Six of one and half a dozen of the other. QED

He bombed a girls school and killed 186 children. That can’t be taken back.

Millions of civilians are being murdered at these people’s behest. If international law continues to be undermined, they wiil eventually have no safeguards.