Discussion of the 26 June Gaza protest calling for self-rule

I've just read an update with the voices of people in Gaza, understandably they have not revealed their identities:

Unidentified sources in Gaza told Ynet that Hamas gunmen were deployed throughout the area to prevent the demonstrations from spreading to multiple locations.

According to these same sources, armed terrorists were positioned near gathering points, movement of civilians in areas of displacement camps was restricted, and in some cases, phones were reportedly confiscated from participants or individuals identified as linked to the protest calls.

One of the protest organizers reportedly told Kan News that participants were facing severe threats from Hamas. “They accused us of treason,” the source stated.

“They threaten anyone who opposes Hamas. All of us are in danger, but we still believe we deserve to live without a terrorist organization.”

Another reported protester in Gaza told Ynet, “The atmosphere on the ground was one of clear pressure, and any attempt to organize the public was met with an immediate response from security forces.”

Conversely, Hamas supporters apparently claimed that these measures were intended “to protect public order and prevent chaos in times of war.”

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-900645

It is much easier for Palestinians living overseas to organise a protest on Facebook, yes of course.

That doesn't mean it's wrong for them to want to organise protests against Hamas in the hope that the international community will report it and get the message out about how Hamas are behaving towards those in Gaza.

As journalist & activist Abdul Ati said, “A Palestinian remains Palestinian wherever he is, whether in Gaza, the West Bank or the diaspora, and he has the right to speak about his people’s suffering and express his opinion freely.”

It has been mentioned several times on this thread why it is so difficult for Palestinians in Gaza to protest. It doesn't have to be said on every post by every person, surely. Of course @dairydebris would have considered it, they are posting in a thoughtful way as they always do.

"Israel has been killing far more Palestinians than Hamas so I do not trust them in this at all which is why I said they should butt out"

I already agreed with you about that so don't see the need to keep repeating that Israel's endorsement wasn't helpful.

"Protests have already happened last year so there does seem to be some dissent being tolerated".

What are you talking about? You do know that Palestinians were killed last year in Gaza for daring to protest so no, their dissent was not tolerated. I simply do not understand why anyone would minimise the fact that Hamas murder civilians just for protesting, as do the IRGC also murder civilians for protesting.

You should be outraged by this as you say you support everyone's right to protest, but instead you are downplaying it by choosing to focus on some dissent is tolerated.

Oh stop with the vague accusations, what's my agenda? I'd love to know.

So how exactly are the Palestinian people going to go against the Hamas terrorists.They don’t stand a chance.They will never be able to overthrow them.
I don’t see worldwide marching in the streets against the Terrorist Hamas group to relinquish their iron like grip on the Palestinians.

I have read the posts and I see your agenda clear as day.

I'm interest to hear these voices whether or not you find it tone deaf I'm afraid.
I don't find it to be deaf to want to hear their voices I found it tone deaf to not have highlighted why it is so difficult. Good to hear you did consider it though

Also Marty seemed to imply protest was pointless when she said, If Israel with all its military might couldn't beat Hamas how are some displaced starving civilians

@Twiglets I didn't imply anything I think it is completely pointless.
Hamas will murder their own citizens so why send them to their deaths protesting without any international support.
That's not to say I think Hamas should remain in power.
But it is very easy for a journalist in Egypt to organise a protest on Facebook against a vicious terrorist group when he is nice and safe .

Well it's very difficult to get their voices heard with the ban on access to the strip for international journalists and the targeting and killing of Palestinian journalists in Gaza. I actually find it pretty tone deaf to not have considered this in your quest to hear these under represented voices.

@dairydebris @Twiglets1 what Palestinian voices are you referring to? Those from inside or outside Gaza? There are plenty from outside Gaza giving views on the situation

I feel like you implied it was too dangerous for Palestinians
I do feel that they are very vulnerable but that's very different to your suggestion that posters say they shouldn't
it not being for us to decide for them that Palestinians in Gaza shouldn't protest against Hamas.

By bad faith actors I presume you mean Israel's tweet but is Israel endorsing the protest really more concerning than Hamas denying Palestinians the right to show criticism of the way they are ruling by threatening violence and death to anyone who dares show dissent?
Israel has been killing far more Palestinians than Hamas so I do not trust them in this at all which is why I said they should butt out. As I said their interference in the past contributed to Hamas gaining power and they are already funding militia gangs in Gaza so yes they are bad faith actors who do not care about the welfare of Palestinians.

denying Palestinians the right to show criticism of the way they are ruling by threatening violence and death to anyone who dares show dissent
Protests have already happened last year so there does seem to be some dissent being tolerated. I don't support anyone threatening anyone with violence if they dare show dissent and I support everyone's right to protest.

I haven’t been able to find much either. Nothing on the BBC website.

I think there were some protests but they were limited. Agree it would be good to hear Palestinian voices on the subject, but I guess most are afraid to be identified.

Maybe there will be more in UK media tomorrow.

"I don't think anyone has said that Palestinians in Gaza should not protest against Hamas".

I feel like you implied it was too dangerous for Palestinians in Gaza to protest when you said, I absolutely welcome dissent against Hamas from displaced Palestinians abroad but those living in Gaza are in too vulnerable a position when they are surrounded on all sides by people happy to kill them.

Also Marty seemed to imply protest was pointless when she said, If Israel with all its military might couldn't beat Hamas how are some displaced starving civilians..

Why is your concern is mainly about the intervention of bad faith actors causing more trouble for Palestinians ... ?

By bad faith actors I presume you mean Israel's tweet but is Israel endorsing the protest really more concerning than Hamas denying Palestinians the right to show criticism of the way they are ruling by threatening violence and death to anyone who dares show dissent?

it not being for us to decide for them that Palestinians in Gaza shouldn't protest against Hamas.

I don't think anyone has said that Palestinians in Gaza should not protest against Hamas

But Israel's tweet on X is not the core issue and focusing on that instead of what Hamas is doing is not helpful to those that risked themselves and their family's wellbeing to protest.
I disagree that focusing on that tweet is not helpful because it raises concerns about meddling. My concern is mainly about the intervention of bad faith actors causing more trouble for Palestinians, I mean it was those bad faith actors that were instrumental in Hamas getting to power in the first place.

Yes we can focus on Hamas threats about closing the protests down but a couple of us have posted links to protests that happened last year without issue so it's hard to know what's going on.

I agree it's a lot safer for Palestinians living abroad to express dissent.

Though I repeat what I said above about it not being for us to decide for them that Palestinians in Gaza shouldn't protest against Hamas. Yes they are vulnerable, but this is not the only example in history where people have to be very brave to protest but some still choose to do it because they feel so strongly.

Agree that Israel endorsing the protest plan was not helpful and they should have kept out of it. But Israel's tweet on X is not the core issue and focusing on that instead of what Hamas is doing is not helpful to those that risked themselves and their family's wellbeing to protest.

It's not up to me (or you) to decide it's pointless if Palestinians feel they want to protest against Hamas.

Obviously they can't defeat Hamas in a military sense but protestors normally protest because they hope to get a message out that others will pick up on.

It would be good if more of our media sources covered this story - maybe sources like the BBC will get round to it later, they can be slow covering protests against authoritarian regimes.

I absolutely welcome dissent against Hamas from displaced Palestinians abroad but those living in Gaza are in too vulnerable a position when they are surrounded on all sides by people happy to kill them. If there is to be any realistic movement away from Hamas Israel needs to butt out completely, their gaslighting tweets are not helpful and just put innocent people at more risk. They are bad actors in this.

Maybe read my first post on the thread which clearly outlines my opinion on this topic. I'm quite entitled to query someone else's motivation for posting when it appears to just be about having a dig at other posters.

So you aren’t posting about Palestinians trying to go against Hamas,
I have, read my posts on it, but you're clearly not....
Pot kettle black

True dat.

Well yes obviously.

Its a terrorist group.

How are unarmed people going to stand up to that?

If Israel with all its military might couldn't beat Hamas how are some displaced starving civilians..