Discussion of the 26 June Gaza protest calling for self-rule

Well said.

I disagree.
There is acknowledgment of Israel’s responsibility, and then there is trying to shoehorn in Israel as being the problem, whilst briefly skipping over the fact that the Palestinians have zero chance on their own of overthrowing Hamas.
Some of the people have been brave enough to speak.
Who knows if these same people will now be murdered by Hamas as a lesson to other Palestinians not to ever think about trying to overthrow them.
Of course these deaths will not be reported or known outside of Gaza as murdered by Hamas.
Nothing will change for them and they will still be in the same state 5, 10, 50 years down the line until there is international condemnation of Hamas, not just constantly “but Israel” into every argument.

Fair point re elections. That is why I said they need elections.

And Isreal are the occupying force. What are they offering the Gazans if Hamas is overthrown ? Sorry, I mean when Hamas are overthrown.

What are you trying to suggest, that Israel organised the protest just because they endorsed it on X?

It really is incredible how you can make anything bad that happens Israel's fault. The organisers appear mainly to be Palestinians living overseas, some have openly put their names to it since they are in a safer place than Palestinians living in Gaza. People like Gaza-born Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, a Palestinian humanitarian activist.

Honestly, Israel post a tweet and that is pounced on as suspicious. Agree they should have refrained from commenting, but a tweet doesn't make them responsible for Gazan protests against Hamas. That's just nonsense.

Don’t you care about Gazans being oppressed by Hamas? You would rather talk about anything else it seems.

Goodness me. I make a PH7 post about protests, and I state 1 opinion about elections being needed and I am accused of all sorts.Then I post an aside about Trump being a threat to democracy worldwide and I am accused again.

No mention of the content of what I posted, Just accusing the poster of all sorts.

Ok, here is an alternate idea about the protests in Gaza. I have not seen this mentioned in the thread anywhere, but where I live it would be considered very carefully if there was a call to protest on social media. ( Western SM is banned where I am, this is the only site I can post on that is western SM, so far as I know - so please don't try to have me banned).

100 flowers. It's a tool used by authoritarian Governments and dictators the world over. Named after a Mao campaign. It is used to "flush" dissenters out. Hamas could have encouraged the protest. So it could round up anyone who attended.

That could account for the low turnout, if that was the case, and the lack of reporting. However, there is the issue that Israel endorsed the protest. So back to the same problem. Who organised it ?

And really, this is why it was daft for Israel to endorse it. Because if there was an anti Trump protest in Gaza, people would assume it was Hamas who set it up. The anti Hamas protest ? Who organised it ? That matters. Israel endorsing it is not good. They should have stayed quiet.

Blatant whataboutism.

”It should really be him that is removed from power”.

Trump instead of Hamas, really? You think he’s worse than Hamas and feel so strongly about that you would rather divert the conversation from the Gazan protests to yet more talk about Trump. Why not stick to what the thread is about. Which is yet more oppression for the people of Gaza, a subject that normally interests you greatly when the subject is Israel doing the oppressing.

This thread is about Hamas and how they are ruling through fear and how some Gazans have even risked their lives to be heard criticising them.

It’s not about Trump or Netanyahu. God knows it’s hard enough for the people of Gaza to speak out without their voices being drowned out by whataboutisms.

Who are the people hoping to use Gaza protests against Hamas as justification to keep bombing? I think you are attempting to link 2 completely separate things just to avoid saying - it’s awful that people in Gaza are so oppressed by Hamas they aren’t even allowed the right to protest.

Don’t you care about Gazans being oppressed by Hamas, only about them being oppressed by Israel? Because you don’t seem to want to discuss the protests beyond trying to put the blame elsewhere or compare Iranian dissidents to those in the UK or the popularity of Hamas to the popularity of Netanyahu. How are we supposed to gauge the popularity of Hamas when the people aren’t allowed to voice their true feelings?

This thread is about protests in Gaza whereas you want to focus on anything but. An example of Gazans being used as pawns to further other people’s agendas.

As a small addition to my above post, and elections.

It does not help anyone that POTUS yells non stop that US elections are rigged against him. For the sake of democracy worldwide, it should really be him that is removed from power.

Can I reverse this to make a point ?

Limited net where I am, so my data is for example only.

Yesterday I posted a link to a France 24 article about the protests last year, and it had this in it :

It estimated that 35 percent of Palestinians in Gaza said they supported Hamas, and 26 percent said they supported its rival Fatah, the party of Ramallah-based Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas.

So lets say 35% of people in Gaza support HAMAS.Now look at this.

Poll: 66% of Israelis want Netanyahu to leave politics, 85% support Oct. 7 probe | The Times of Israel

That headline : Poll: 66% of Israelis want Netanyahu to leave politics, 85% support Oct. 7 probe. Ok, it's a TV poll so not really valid ( Poll sites blocked where I am}, but by inference, that puts Netanyahu's support in Israel at 34%.

As @dairydebris points out, the Palestinian people are being used as pawns by too many people.

And there are people hoping to use Gaza protests against HAMAS as justification to keep bombing. And there will be people hoping for HAMAS to do a brutal crackdown on the protests so they can say " See, we need to bomb HAMAS out of existence.

Yet the data above suggests Netanyahu has less support in Israel than Hamas has in GAZA. And yes, while there are people who would like to see Israel bombed, that is not happening. Because protests should not be used as justification for war.

Re overseas dissidents. The UK has them too. Tommy ten names. Lives in Spain, organises protests in the UK, and at that these protests people call for the overthrow of the UK Government, and many yell for civil war. Anyone calling for Britain to be bombed to remove the Government ?

I reckon it is elections that are needed in Gaza.

It is unfair to accuse @Boolabus of posting in bad faith. The points they have made referencing the reasons for absence of media coverage and the impossible situation in which Palestinians are caught are absolutely valid. You cannot make these points without acknowledging Israel’s part. If you disagree with these, perhaps you could explain why@IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken, rather than attacking pp for having an ‘agenda’ rather than a valid opinion based on fact.

I agree with you @Martymcfly24 :

Its a terrorist group.
How are unarmed people going to stand up to that?
If Israel with all its military might couldn't beat Hamas how are some displaced starving civilians..

‘I hope this can help raise awareness of the awful issues these people daily face.’ @dairydebris

I hope so too. The only good that can come of this I think is that more people may realise and support the urgent need to allow in international media. There have been several efforts including a letter signed by journalists across 27 countries to attempt access, all of which have hit a brick wall. There are still live petitions eg Reporters without Frontiers.

Yes agree with you totally.

Article including the video of Palestinians in Gaza protesting against Hamas on June 26th.

The ToI make the point that none of the footage could be easily verified, and it was not published by the major media outlets in Gaza, which are affiliated with Hamas.

Earlier this week, several Gaza residents told The Times of Israel that Hamas had warned journalists in Gaza not to cover the protests.

Instead, major Gazan outlets on Friday published footage showing empty intersections where protests had allegedly been planned, declaring the “Failure of the June 26 Revolution.”

A resident of central Gaza confirmed to The Times of Israel that masked men affiliated with Hamas had been present in the streets of Deir al-Balah to prevent protesters from gathering.

He also said a small number of people took part in anti-Hamas demonstrations in Gaza City and other parts of northern Gaza, while people stayed home in central Gaza amid Hamas warnings on social media against participating in the rallies.

The resident asked not to be named due to concerns for his safety.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/bucking-threats-hundreds-in-gaza-seen-protesting-hamas-for-first-time-in-a-year/

Stop repeating yourself then by focusing on Gazans problems with Israel when this thread is about Gazans problems with Hamas.

You made the point that Gazans are between a rock and a hard place and it was agreed with by Debris and myself.

Yet rather than move onto discussing the Gaza protests against Hamas (what the thread is about!) you keep reverting to talking about Israel instead.

Whatever, done explaining myself to you. You have done nothing but criticise me and barely engaged with the topic of the thread beyond that so there's no point in attempting to engage with you any further you've an opinion of me which I'm not likely able to change so I won't waste any more time trying to

Yeah I did which is why I actually said I'm repeating myself!!

why shoehorn in something we had stopped talking about pages ago.
Because you asked me why I'm talking about Israel so I went back to my point on Palestinians being caught between a rock and a hard place.

I agreed with both of you on that,
So why did you ask me this???
How is the 60% occupation relevant to Gazans protesting against Hamas?

Ok I'm done

You are pushing an anti Israel agenda, you are not posting anything relevant about the Hamas situation so no, they are not unfounded accusations.

Yup you are still shoehorning in Israel.
That’s why nothing will get better for the Palestinians as they are just pawns.

None of what I'm posting is in bad faith so please just drop these unfounded accusations I'm posting my opinion same as everyone else. Having a different perspective on something does not equal bad faith

You made that point on page 1 - why shoehorn in something we had stopped talking about pages ago.

Dairy agreed with you, she said I agree that Gazan Palestinians are caught between two parties of oppression.

I agreed with both of you on that, I said Agree. And also that they are incredibly brave to participate in protests.

See this is what I mean about posting in bad faith and with an agenda.
And how are Israel occupying 60% of Gaza.

Because it's highlighting the rock and the hard place they're in ffs I'm repeating myself now. Israel kill them Hamas kill them they've no where to turn and no one trust.