Rising anti swmtism in the UK....do we really need to crack down I n the Iran regime Hamas supporting mobs?

Christians arent an ethnic group.

What does it have to do with magic? Its the same basis as any other self determination. Geography, history, language, culture.

Geography? Israel exists. Recognised by most countries including mine. Yugoslavia has disappeared, and Tibet, and a few others have been renamed...just the facts?

The same one where they pretend Israel has a magical right to exist as per the OP I suppose, the one you don't object to.

What subject would that teacher be teaching? Antisemitism ? (see how I got back to the thread subject)

Uh huh. I'm sure if a teacher were teaching students that Palestine has the right to exist in Israels place we would all just be smiling and nodding about how all rights are just made up beliefs and why shouldnt the teacher be teaching their beliefs as facts to the kids. What are facts anyway?

All rights are man made beliefs.

At least you aren't denying that 'Israel has a right to exist' is a belief not an actual right like some people.

So Jewish people in the UK or France for instance are denied the right to self determination? Can you talk me through that a bit more, the UK is denying British Jews their human rights is that what you are saying?

Does that mean that only Israel has this magical 'right to exist' because Christians for instance can have self determination in many countries? So Israel is exceptional?

That'll be a limited curriculum. Humanities and arts might seem a little dry.

You're the one going round in circles. The Jews have the right to self determination. The only place they can have self determination is their country, Israel.

Teaching that countries have a right to exist when no such right is of course stupid. Why would you teach something that isn't true? People explicitly deny a right that isn't a right in the first place? How does that even work?

You are talking in circles. I get it people are told over and over that 'Israel has a right to exist' and they believe it and think that there is actually some 'right to exist' out there so it's hard for them to process. It's a type of indoctrination that is taught, like religion. Rather than 'some people believe Israel has a right to exist' or 'some people believe Jesus died for our sins' they present these beliefs as facts. Indoctrination is hard to move past, that's why I don't believe that it has a place in schools. Tell people the facts and let them make up their own minds.

Teaching should be about facts, not feelings or opinions.
Many subjects are about feelings and opinions. I would argue that law and rights are man made (subjective) concepts that reflect societal values which in turn have often been historically informed/enforced by the predominant faith. Even the stricture of the sanctity of life varies between societies. Laws are only valid as long as they are enforceable and enforced, that also varies by country and we tend to get used to what we already know. There is fragile consensus about these things, particularly at present.
I wonder how or if RE should be taught if all subjects must be factual?
Sticking to facts rather than made up propaganda talking points is probably more suited to Western education systems.
Education means different things to different people. Some people would like it to mean teaching how to think, others would prefer it to be teaching what to think, (which might be more peaceful but less desirable for creative problem solving).

wrt this thread, many people will say that antisemitism is a fact in the UK today and that it's rise was foreseeable, my perception concurs. Other people will disagree.
I poll as a lefty libertarian, on here I'd be accused of being right wing, on this board people like me have been accused of much worse.

Its not stupid when people explicitly deny Israel's right to exist. Its only an issue because people wish to destroy Israel which is racist and genocidal.

To quote myself earlier in this thread Of course they can be taught that Israel is a country but there is no such thing under international law as the right for a state to exist whether it is Israel or Spain or wherever.

And it isn't a 'feeling' that I have. It's just the way it is, no country has a right to exist. It gets confusing because so many people have had it drilled into them that 'Israel has the right to exist' so they believe that there is actually some law somewhere that says this but there isn't. Teaching should be about facts, not feelings or opinions. Teach that Israel exists. Teach about the right to self determination. Teach about the prohibition of territorial conquest and annexation. All of these things cover what needs to be covered without making up rights.

Sorry, I should have realised but I have a sense of humour bypass where antisemitism is concerned!

Interesting. Just Israel? Do you feel the same way about Wales, Scotland, Ireland?

@SunnyAfternoonToday Sorry, that was black humour. For my part I am beyond furious at how that article describes antisemitism like it’s bad weather or something – not a mention of who’s doing these attacks, for example. This is almost entirely an imported problem and we are simply not being honest about it.

In the 1930s my German born Jewish mother experienced exactly what British Jews are now facing. So, no, it's definitely not 'just one of those things' when no fewer than four London synagogues have been attacked in the past week alone.

No other minority in Britain, whatever their ethnicity, race or religion, is having to put up with what the Jewish community is having to do here and now. No other community (and I include Muslims) have to guard their places of worship, their schools, businesses and community centres as British Jews have to do.

Surely you can see that rampant Jew hate has now become normalised in Britain @Sskka?

Yes self determination is a right that people have like I said, that could be taught. A countries 'right to exist' isn't a right, so teaching it would be pretty stupid.

Of course they can be taught that Israel is a country but there is no such thing under international law as the right for a state to exist whether it is Israel or Spain or wherever. It isn't a thing. No country has 'the right to exist' that's just a made up talking point that people use when talking about Israel. Legal frameworks focus on the right of peoples to self-determination and the prohibition of territorial conquest. Sticking to facts when teaching children should be the bare minimum really.

Who is exceptionalising Israel? Self determination is a recognised right.

You're right. And There arent even 'lots of' Jewish people in the UK never mind lots that join the IDF. Its a tiny community. Noone holds soldiers of any other country responsible for policies of their government that they disagree with. Its just another form of antisemitism, holding ordinary Jews collectively responsible for the politics of the Israeli government.

Palestine is more complicated. The BBC describe it as a state that does and does not exist ... due to the Palestinians' long-running dispute with Israel, it has no internationally agreed boundaries, no capital and no army.

Given its status as a kind of quasi-state, recognition is inevitably somewhat symbolic. It will represent a strong moral and political statement but change little on the ground.

But the symbolism is strong. As the former UK foreign secretary David Lammy pointed out during a speech at the UN in July: "Britain bears a special burden of responsibility to support the two-state solution."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgp5z1vvj5o

As are Palestine and Iran