IDF confirms authenticity of a photo of a soldier destroying a statute of Jesus Christ

Honestly- I would say that your interpretation of Scripture is very literal and lacks nuance and context.
But that’s my view - I’m Catholic - we don’t tend to read things quite the way evangelical Christians do … That’s part of the reason I guess why there are different denominations.

Im not here to persuade you my beliefs are correct. I’m just here to say that no one should be oppressed because of their religious beliefs.

It’s the extremism that’s the problem. Not the religion or the lack of religion.

Extremists of all types are intolerant of the views of others - not just religious extremism- atheistic extremism ( generally in the form of communism) is also oppressive to religious groups ( eg North Korea) .

Extremists/ fundamentalists can’t tolerate difference. They see it as a threat .

Cool. Thanks for that.

So Mat 18:5-6

"And he who may receive one such child in My Name, receives Me,and whoever may cause to stumble one of those little ones who are believing in Me, it is better for him that a weighty millstone may be hanged on his neck, and he may be sunk in the depth of the sea." (LSV)

The unforgivable sin. Punishable by death. To turn someone away from Jesus.

To put that into the context of this thread, your religion says if I were to de-convert you, then I deserve to be drowned. So for this IDF soldier, when confronted by a statue, which is forbidden in the ten commandments, perhaps his faith meant he had to destroy it.

It really is a case of religion can be the persecutor.

Even in Christianity, a real Christian would follow 1 Tim 2:12. I would argue that persecutes women.

Not as simple as it first seems, is what I say.

I don't know about anyone yelling "religious persecution" but it would come across as very judgemental to escort a leader (or anyone) out of the room just for mentioning their God, or variation of.

People are entitled to their own religious beliefs. I say this as an atheist who believes in live and let live with regard to religious beliefs, or lack of.

A real Christian believes the central creeds of Christianity, repents of their sins and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. They have a personal relationship with Christ. So by that definition then yes, I am a real Christian. It's not just 'my' definition, though! If I only go by what I think, I'm in danger of no longer following the true gospel, and not being saved.

What it says on the tin.

By your definition of what a Christian is, are you a real one. As opposed to the not real ones that you described ? I assume that's what you meant by this :

"I don't recognise it as 'real' Christianity. "

So you must know what "real" is, per some definition that you have.

What is your definition of 'real' here?

So are you a real Christian ?

I believe in the central doctrines of the Christian faith (Nicene creed). I have an ongoing relationship with Jesus Christ and see the work of the Holy Spirit in my life. I grieve my past sins and have repented of them, and repent of those I commit going forward. I seek to follow God's commands and be obedient (that is hard!) I love my fellow Christians and seek to bring the gospel to those who as yet do not believe. Hopefully my 'fruits' demonstrate those of the Holy Spirit i.e. love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. The Holy Spirit helps to change me so I turn from disobedient and sinful behaviour, and although I don't always succeed I will repent and go forward trusting Jesus. He is my shepherd. These things indicate that I am a believer in the true gospel.

I also belong to a Bible-believing church. We have exegetical sermons (ie. analysis verse by verse and then a discussion afterwards with our pastor (who has a doctorate in theology and is therefore incredibly knowledgeable) and I have to say every week I learn more and feel very blessed. It's not good to be isolated as a Christian nor to exclusively study the Bible on one's own, we need the checks of a good Church to help us with fellowship and staying on the right path!

So not real Christians. But I assume you are ?

I'm going to partly disagree here because I don't think you can put all evangelicals in the same box. I certainly agree with the mega-churches in the US preaching some very questionable things and I don't recognise it as 'real' Christianity. However there are still plenty of evangelicals in the US that aren't like that because evangelicalism stretches across many denominations, they're busy spreading the gospel in a quieter more authentic manner!

Pretty much. So-called Christians who don't believe the main dogmas of Christianity are in danger of Jesus saying 'I never knew you'. I'm not God so not going to attempt to split hairs on which particular things may or may not put anyone in that position, apart from very obvious ones like 'believing in another gospel' according to Paul (i.e. a distorted gospel from the one Jesus preached):

Galations 1:6-9 "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed." (ESV)

2 Corinthians 11:3-4 "But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough." (ESV)

Quote : " .....given that we are all flawed humans"

Is that according to your religion ?

Yes! Which I know is inevitable given that we are all flawed humans but even so- the way America goes seems so contrary to gospel in many ways... I find it really odd.

I have heard it described as 'nice people have nice gods'. Some people get solace, community and a wish to help others, some get the urge to weaponise or monetise. I guess when you personify gods they get human flaws, or when god's mouthpiece is a flawed human.

Not exactly. I don't want to say whether anyone is a Christian or not. That's between them and God. But more that the American Christianity I see gets further and further away from Christ's actual teachings. The Prosperity stuff for example as poster above says. Just my opinion. I was talking to @GentleSheep because I was interested in their opinion on this.

Not real Christians do you mean ?

American Evangelical Christianity seems to get ever further from what I have always thought of as 'real' Christianity. Its so strange isn't it?

So not real followers unless following an established official dogma ?

Personal religion appears to often be separate from the writings.

Yes, and this is very problematic. This 'doing it one's own way' doesn't lead anywhere good (see Hegseth!) and leads one away from Scripture and into all sorts of non-Biblical and sometimes heretical views. The Prosperity (word of faith) gospel is a good example. It's taking a few scriptures from the Bible out of context and distorting them into a whole new thing; give money to make money, give ME your money and God will bless you! Yeah, right. Yet people believe it and are deceived.

So is the IDF. an organ of a government, doing religious persecution ?

I'm going to say no, overall they are not (in terms of Christians, which is what we're talking about here). There will always be individuals who do things like smash statues but on balance, no.

Why do I say that. After all, I am sitting here in Blighty and have never been in the military nor in Israel. It's because one of the clergy at my church lived in Jerusalem for a quarter of a century (was clergy at a Christian church there) and recently returned to the UK. He was in Israel when Oct 7th took place. His son is currently in the IDF, he's also a committed Christian. He didn't need to join the military there but chose to do so (and is currently serving). I think if there was any feeling that the IDF was anti-Christian he would never have joined them. He has a good relationship with his army mates who were of course curious about why he, as a Christian, had chosen to join and not done the civilian service instead. So, I choose to believe their personal testimonies, after all, a quarter of a century living in a country counts for a lot.

Nah.

That statement is working on the assumption of separation of Church and state. But this war is really about religion. Leaders on both sides keep saying so. In fact, 3 sides. Hegseth never shuts up about his God.

But I do think as soon as any leader mentions their God, or variation of, then they should be escorted out the room.

But hey ho, if that happened, they would yell out " Religious persecution".

Quote :

"I think that oppressing or persecuting others on the basis of their religious belief is wrong. End of"

Nah. It has to be conditional. One persons religious freedom can be another persons persecution.

And it's not really about what the various scriptures say really, because as established up thread. not every person of any faith agrees with what their scripture says. Personal religion appears to often be separate from the writings.

And this thread is about what appears to be the IDF persecuting Christians. But you appeared to be downplaying that when you said" That's not as bad as what is happening over there "

So is the IDF. an organ of a government, doing religious persecution ?

“you're correct in saying the Bible says Christians will be rewarded for suffering persecution in the name of their faith. You're taking it too far in saying the faith requires it.
You're correct in saying some people will use their faith for political point scoring. You're taking it too far in saying that political point scoring is fundamental to that faith.”

Perfectly expressed.

I think that oppressing or persecuting others on the basis of their religious belief is wrong. End of

This isn’t really the forum for discussion of the theological complexities of scripture reading.