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Conflict in the Middle East

Israel votes for death penalty for Palestinians convicted of lethal attacks

641 replies

CanAnybodyFindMe · 31/03/2026 14:07

“Israel's far-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir wore a noose pin on his lapel to signal his support for the bill”

I first heard about this on Facebook and thought it might be anti-Israel fake news. But no, it’s true.

Absolutely horrifying and sickening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8dkd6lnjdo

Itamar Ben-Gvir wearing a black suit, red tie and white kippah, talking on a podium in front of Israeli flags

Palestinians convicted of lethal attacks face death penalty under new Israeli law

The new law, passed on Monday, was pushed hard by the far-right and Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8dkd6lnjdo

OP posts:
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26
Ellen2shoes · 30/04/2026 11:44

FloralDeerPattern · 30/04/2026 10:45

It's interesting that a thread discussing a law what is widely acknowledged to be discriminatory against Palestinians is seen as attacking Israelis rather than defending Palestinians. Centering Israelis in everything even a law that will see Palestinians killed is crazy work. Palestinians might be hung from the gallows and it's still why are you attacking Israelis with your words? Palestinians really just don't matter to some.

Edited

It is the standard form of derailment on here.

Twiglets1 · 30/04/2026 11:37

Boolabus · 30/04/2026 11:27

Oh I never said that it was a positive

Yet you are choosing to engage and contribute to discussions? Why do that if you don't want this section of MN to exist?

Twiglets1 · 30/04/2026 11:34

FloralDeerPattern · 30/04/2026 10:45

It's interesting that a thread discussing a law what is widely acknowledged to be discriminatory against Palestinians is seen as attacking Israelis rather than defending Palestinians. Centering Israelis in everything even a law that will see Palestinians killed is crazy work. Palestinians might be hung from the gallows and it's still why are you attacking Israelis with your words? Palestinians really just don't matter to some.

Edited

Did I say that? No I didn't.

I never even mentioned this thread in reference to attacking Israelis or defending Palestinians.

Boolabus is the one who made that connection.

My point was only that I personally have never started a thread purely to attack Gaza or Iran, because @Boolabus seemed to think I am anti those countries (if we can call Gaza a country for the purposes of this debate) just because I start threads about the war in Gaza or Iran.

If I have an obsession, it's with terrorists that attack other countries for decades via proxies. Nothing to do with Palestinians generally, or Iranians either.

Boolabus · 30/04/2026 11:27

Twiglets1 · 30/04/2026 11:12

You're welcome.

Oh I never said that it was a positive

Twiglets1 · 30/04/2026 11:12

Boolabus · 30/04/2026 10:35

My threads on the CITME board tend to be general ones to discuss developments in the conflicts.

It could be argued that your threads are why this section is still active, the section may well have fizzled out long ago without them.

You're welcome.

FloralDeerPattern · 30/04/2026 10:45

Boolabus · 30/04/2026 10:31

I wouldn’t start a thread just attacking Palestinians.
Has there been a thread just attacking Israeli people?

The one you're currently on is looking at a particular controversial law that is considered to be discriminatory so many wanted it debated.

Edited to tag @Twiglets1

Edited

It's interesting that a thread discussing a law what is widely acknowledged to be discriminatory against Palestinians is seen as attacking Israelis rather than defending Palestinians. Centering Israelis in everything even a law that will see Palestinians killed is crazy work. Palestinians might be hung from the gallows and it's still why are you attacking Israelis with your words? Palestinians really just don't matter to some.

Boolabus · 30/04/2026 10:35

Twiglets1 · 30/04/2026 10:17

You would have a point if all my threads were about attacking one particular country but they aren’t. My threads on the CITME board tend to be general ones to discuss developments in the conflicts.

I wouldn’t start a thread just attacking Palestinians. That would be inflammatory in my opinion and just wrong.

My threads on the CITME board tend to be general ones to discuss developments in the conflicts.

It could be argued that your threads are why this section is still active, the section may well have fizzled out long ago without them.

Boolabus · 30/04/2026 10:31

I wouldn’t start a thread just attacking Palestinians.
Has there been a thread just attacking Israeli people?

The one you're currently on is looking at a particular controversial law that is considered to be discriminatory so many wanted it debated.

Edited to tag @Twiglets1

Twiglets1 · 30/04/2026 10:17

Boolabus · 30/04/2026 08:09

On a thread about CITME, again pretty hypocritical statement coming from a poster that posts and starts more threads than anyone else here

You would have a point if all my threads were about attacking one particular country but they aren’t. My threads on the CITME board tend to be general ones to discuss developments in the conflicts.

I wouldn’t start a thread just attacking Palestinians. That would be inflammatory in my opinion and just wrong.

Stirabout · 30/04/2026 10:13

FloralDeerPattern · 30/04/2026 10:03

What kind of evidence do you want from secure facilities entirely controlled by Israel? Israel denies entry and inspection to their detention camps by all independent and international aid organisations. Why do you think this is? There are 100s of testimonies of extreme sexual violence from Israeli soldiers towards Palestinians multiple that include dogs. We even saw the 'right to rape' protests in Israel after soldiers were caught on camera. I don't believe that all of these people are lying, I don't believe an organisation that systematically uses sexual violence(as found by the UN) over their victims, I don't believe an organisation that uses sexual assault as standard operating procedures toward Palestinians(as found by the UN) over their victims.

https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/7022/%E2%80%9CAnother-genocide-behind-walls%E2%80%9D:-New-report-documents-testimonies-of-rape-and-sexual-violence-in-Israeli-prisons

https://www.btselem.org/publications/202601_living_hell

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/torture-and-genocide-report-francesca-albanese-a-hrc-61-71/

www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/03/more-human-can-bear-israels-systematic-use-sexual-reproductive-and-other

Agree
heres another related thread on mumsnet aswell

Israel votes for death penalty for Palestinians convicted of lethal attacks
Israel votes for death penalty for Palestinians convicted of lethal attacks
FloralDeerPattern · 30/04/2026 10:03

Twiglets1 · 30/04/2026 09:28

It is my first reaction to believe rape victims but there has to be some evidence. Is there a single reputable organisation that accepts the allegation made by some individuals that Israel trained dogs to rape Palestinians?

I found a UN Special Committee* appointed by the General Assembly to investigate Israeli practices in Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967 who said it was horrified by violations against Palestinians in Israeli custody.

They did find "intimidation through the use of dogs by Israeli security forces,” - no mention of using dogs to rape people though.

www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/06/un-special-committee-israeli-practices-occupied-territories-concludes-field

What kind of evidence do you want from secure facilities entirely controlled by Israel? Israel denies entry and inspection to their detention camps by all independent and international aid organisations. Why do you think this is? There are 100s of testimonies of extreme sexual violence from Israeli soldiers towards Palestinians multiple that include dogs. We even saw the 'right to rape' protests in Israel after soldiers were caught on camera. I don't believe that all of these people are lying, I don't believe an organisation that systematically uses sexual violence(as found by the UN) over their victims, I don't believe an organisation that uses sexual assault as standard operating procedures toward Palestinians(as found by the UN) over their victims.

https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/7022/%E2%80%9CAnother-genocide-behind-walls%E2%80%9D:-New-report-documents-testimonies-of-rape-and-sexual-violence-in-Israeli-prisons

https://www.btselem.org/publications/202601_living_hell

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/torture-and-genocide-report-francesca-albanese-a-hrc-61-71/

www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/03/more-human-can-bear-israels-systematic-use-sexual-reproductive-and-other

“Another genocide behind walls”: New report documents testimonies of rape and sexual violence in Israeli prisons

Sexual violence against Palestinians in Israeli prisons and detention centres is a de facto state policy, used as a tool of subjugation and destruction

https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/7022/%E2%80%9CAnother-genocide-behind-walls%E2%80%9D:-New-report-documents-testimonies-of-rape-and-sexual-violence-in-Israeli-prisons

Stirabout · 30/04/2026 09:49

Twiglets1 · 30/04/2026 09:28

It is my first reaction to believe rape victims but there has to be some evidence. Is there a single reputable organisation that accepts the allegation made by some individuals that Israel trained dogs to rape Palestinians?

I found a UN Special Committee* appointed by the General Assembly to investigate Israeli practices in Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967 who said it was horrified by violations against Palestinians in Israeli custody.

They did find "intimidation through the use of dogs by Israeli security forces,” - no mention of using dogs to rape people though.

www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/06/un-special-committee-israeli-practices-occupied-territories-concludes-field

.None of us can know the truth on this

heres wiki for the basics

‘ Allegations from Detainees and Human Rights Groups
Testimonies of Sexual Assault: Released detainees have reported incidents of sexual violence involving dogs. For example, a man who spoke to the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR)alleged that soldiers forced a dog to climb on and "rape" him after he was stripped naked. Other accounts shared via Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor and describe prisoners being forced into positions for sexual assault by police dogs.
Whistleblower Statements: Shaiel Ben-Ephraim, a former Israeli soldier and geopolitical analyst, reported speaking with guards at the Sde Teiman detention facility who claimed that colleagues used dogs to sexually abuse captives. He characterized the evidence of these practices as "overwhelming."
Reports of Systematic Abuse: Human rights organizations such as B’Tselem and SOMO have documented a pattern where dogs are used to threaten, intimidate, and attack civilians and prisoners. These reports often frame the use of dogs as part of a broader system of "calculated cruelty" and torture. 1, 2, 3, 4]
Official Responses and Counter-Claims
Denials and Dismissals: Israeli officials and some media watchdog groups, such as HonestReporting, have dismissed these claims as "baseless lies" and "dehumanizing propaganda." They argue there is no evidence or training framework for conditioning animals to perform sexual acts and compare the allegations to historical "blood libels."
Legal and Institutional Defense: The Israel Prison Service and the IDF generally maintain that they operate according to the law. In some high-profile cases of sexual assault at Sde Teiman (such as a 2024 incident involving soldiers), investigations were launched, though critics argue that accountability remains limited.
International Oversight: Organizations like the United Nations and the BBC have documented broader patterns of torture—including the use of dogs for intimidation and "menacing"—

but have noted the difficulty in verifying specific sexual assault claims due to the secretive nature of military detention sites like Sde Teiman. 1, 2, 3]

The debate remains polarized: human rights groups cite consistent survivor testimonies as proof of a systemic practice, while Israeli authorities and supporters reject them as fabricated narratives designed to demonize the military.’

Then heres an extract from your link

‘Israel’s persistent refusal to hold credible dialogue with the UN Committee illustrates its unwillingness to be held accountable for the actions and policies it pursues in the occupied Palestinian territory,” the Special Committee said.

We saw footage of the gang rape by the IDF of a detainee. Or at least we saw him dragged behind a screen with several Israelis joining the group. The Israeli guards were not found guilty by Israel

FromAlJazeera on that case

‘ Others, including the hard right and ultranationalist politicians, such as National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir, within Israel, have argued that any action – even gang rape – is permissible if it is undertaken for the security of the state.’

On being asked by Ahmad Tibi, one of the Arab MPs within the Israeli Knesset last week if it was legitimate “to insert a stick into a person’s rectum”, Hanoch Milwidsky, a member of Prime Minister Benyamin Netanyahu’s ruling Likud party, responded: “If he is a Nukhba [Hamas militant], everything is legitimate to do! Everything!”

Unleashing terror: Dutch dogs in Israel’s war crimes - SOMO

⚠️ Trigger warning: This article contains descriptions of extreme violence, including attacks by military dogs, physical abuse, and psychological trauma. It features testimonies from victims, some of which describe violence against children. It’s early...

https://www.somo.nl/unleashing-terror-dutch-dogs-in-israels-war-crimes/

Boolabus · 30/04/2026 09:34

Emilesgran · 30/04/2026 09:17

“I was highlighting that they were clear about it.”

Seriously? Is that what you thought the question was - whether or not the PP had been clear?
You're not posting in good faith here.

You're not posting in good faith here.

Oh I am and I always have done.

Twiglets1 · 30/04/2026 09:28

FloralDeerPattern · 30/04/2026 09:11

Of course I believe the victims of sexual violence. Do you not?

It is my first reaction to believe rape victims but there has to be some evidence. Is there a single reputable organisation that accepts the allegation made by some individuals that Israel trained dogs to rape Palestinians?

I found a UN Special Committee* appointed by the General Assembly to investigate Israeli practices in Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967 who said it was horrified by violations against Palestinians in Israeli custody.

They did find "intimidation through the use of dogs by Israeli security forces,” - no mention of using dogs to rape people though.

www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/06/un-special-committee-israeli-practices-occupied-territories-concludes-field

Emilesgran · 30/04/2026 09:17

Boolabus · 30/04/2026 08:53

I was highlighting that they were clear about it. You have said a lot to justify the deaths and have repeated a lot of Israeli propoganda. I don't believe you want more deaths because I doubt you are a psyochpath but it can be hard to read constant justifications for deaths that have occurred.

I will also say again that you do not get posters here justifying innocent Israeli deaths and I find it difficult to undertsand how people standing up for innocent palestinains are instanty labelled anti Israel. What is it about people standing up for innocent palestinian civilains that people find so offensive?

“I was highlighting that they were clear about it.”

Seriously? Is that what you thought the question was - whether or not the PP had been clear?
You're not posting in good faith here.

Twiglets1 · 30/04/2026 09:12

Boolabus · 30/04/2026 09:10

more extreme element amongst you.
Ah here fgs we are individuals posting here, you need to stop seeing us as a homogenous group because we have some similar views on things. Anyone posting extreme views on something it is on that poster not anybody else I hope that is clear. I have often reported extreme antisemitic views and seen those posts deleted so no need to insinuate people always let these stand

I'm saying the exact opposite of you being a homogenous group.

I'm making the point that some posters are much more extreme in their views than others.

FloralDeerPattern · 30/04/2026 09:11

Twiglets1 · 30/04/2026 08:59

Do you believe that Israel trained dogs to rape people?

Of course I believe the victims of sexual violence. Do you not?

Twiglets1 · 30/04/2026 09:10

Boolabus · 30/04/2026 08:35

A bit of backtracking there in your explanation, does not really make much sense tbh you say

I was referring to all the people in society who say they are not antisemitic because no one admits to that) but just have a special hatred for Israel and in some cases, Jews around the world.
So who are these people and why say it in the context of posters who have been critical of the Israeli government and the IDF

You also said this:
Yes it's a good point well made @Emilesgran that Israel only attack those who are attacking them.
People who won't acknowledge that just can't see beyond hating Israel so they have to divert attention from that simple truth.
Again you are indirectly talking about posters here and it is obvious

was very pointedly made at her.
Yes they were clear about the tone they were getting from the post and their previous posts

No backtracking at all in my explanation. You keep going on about that comment I made yesterday. I have explained what I meant by it and at the time I made it, you were the only one who questioned it.

Again, it was a general point made so I don't know why you keep going on about "who are these people". I don't have their names because they are people in society who are antisemitic but don't self-identify as such.

By saying "good point well made" to Emiliesgran I was saying I agreed with her point that Israel only attack those that attack them. The people I was referring to who "won't acknowledge that" could be on MN or in wider society. What is your point about that? I'm allowed to have opinions and it's not against site rules or a personal attack for me to think some people on MN won't acknowledge that Israel only attacks those that attack them.

Boolabus · 30/04/2026 09:10

Twiglets1 · 30/04/2026 08:57

It's surprisingly rare for people who are on the pro Palestinian side (or however you would like me to term it) to ever openly disagree with the horrible comments made by the more extreme element amongst you.

So yes, I was pleased that you voiced that. I will ignore the reference to "explains a lot" in the interest of trying to keep things civil.

more extreme element amongst you.
Ah here fgs we are individuals posting here, you need to stop seeing us as a homogenous group because we have some similar views on things. Anyone posting extreme views on something it is on that poster not anybody else I hope that is clear. I have often reported extreme antisemitic views and seen those posts deleted so no need to insinuate people always let these stand

FloralDeerPattern · 30/04/2026 09:09

Emilesgran · 30/04/2026 08:58

That first one is from me - it’s not “denying sexual violence” it’s saying that many of the claims are literally incredible and yet people in authority are promoting them. As I made clear in the post.

If you want to take from that some sort of defence of actual sexual violence, rather than a point about invented claims, I think that says more about you than about me.

And for anyone who hasn’t followed the discussion, I have also said more than once that any crimes by the IDF should of course be investigated and punished.

But it’s easier to pretend that the people you disagree with are just evil people who want lots of deaths, who are happy about dead babies and who deny sexual violence.

Avoids you having to construct an actual argument.

You are calling sexual violence towards Palestinians 'nonsense claims' that is denying sexual violence towards Palestinians which is what I said you did. Obviously you feel that you have your own reasons to deny sexual violence towards Palestinians, I'm not really interested in those.

My post was showing that yes people do deny sexual violence towards Palestinians, justify their deaths and say that they don't care. I didn't have to dig up very old posts to show this or even go to a different thread because it happens so frequently there were examples here from the past 24hrs. The fact that pro Israel posters don't even register that is happening on threads that they are actively posting on says quite about their attitudes a lot towards Palestinians because you can be damn sure if posts were blaming all Israelis and saying that they don't care if they die or denying sexual violence testimonies of Israelis they would notice it.

Twiglets1 · 30/04/2026 08:59

FloralDeerPattern · 30/04/2026 08:53

But nonsense claims about training dogs to rape are propagated by people in authority like Francesca Albanese. - a post denying sexual violence towards Palestinians from yesterday.

The hostages were very often kept and moved about civilian homes, yet not one single 'civilian' stepped up. So cry me a river when they're caught in the crossfire. - a poster clearly justifying and saying that they don't care about civillian deaths.

These posts are from the past 24hrs on just this thread and people are trying to pretend that this kind of thing isn't endemic here when trying to discuss the Palestinian victims of Israeli violence?

Edited

Do you believe that Israel trained dogs to rape people?

Emilesgran · 30/04/2026 08:58

FloralDeerPattern · 30/04/2026 08:53

But nonsense claims about training dogs to rape are propagated by people in authority like Francesca Albanese. - a post denying sexual violence towards Palestinians from yesterday.

The hostages were very often kept and moved about civilian homes, yet not one single 'civilian' stepped up. So cry me a river when they're caught in the crossfire. - a poster clearly justifying and saying that they don't care about civillian deaths.

These posts are from the past 24hrs on just this thread and people are trying to pretend that this kind of thing isn't endemic here when trying to discuss the Palestinian victims of Israeli violence?

Edited

That first one is from me - it’s not “denying sexual violence” it’s saying that many of the claims are literally incredible and yet people in authority are promoting them. As I made clear in the post.

If you want to take from that some sort of defence of actual sexual violence, rather than a point about invented claims, I think that says more about you than about me.

And for anyone who hasn’t followed the discussion, I have also said more than once that any crimes by the IDF should of course be investigated and punished.

But it’s easier to pretend that the people you disagree with are just evil people who want lots of deaths, who are happy about dead babies and who deny sexual violence.

Avoids you having to construct an actual argument.

Twiglets1 · 30/04/2026 08:57

Boolabus · 30/04/2026 08:38

Thank you for confirming that you see it as wrong and offensive
The fact you needed me to confirm that with you just highlights how you view posters that disagree with you and have an alternative view on something. Explains a lot tbh

It's surprisingly rare for people who are on the pro Palestinian side (or however you would like me to term it) to ever openly disagree with the horrible comments made by the more extreme element amongst you.

So yes, I was pleased that you voiced that. I will ignore the reference to "explains a lot" in the interest of trying to keep things civil.

FloralDeerPattern · 30/04/2026 08:53

But nonsense claims about training dogs to rape are propagated by people in authority like Francesca Albanese. - a post denying sexual violence towards Palestinians from yesterday.

The hostages were very often kept and moved about civilian homes, yet not one single 'civilian' stepped up. So cry me a river when they're caught in the crossfire. - a poster clearly justifying and saying that they don't care about civillian deaths.

These posts are from the past 24hrs on just this thread and people are trying to pretend that this kind of thing isn't endemic here when trying to discuss the Palestinian victims of Israeli violence?

Boolabus · 30/04/2026 08:53

Emilesgran · 30/04/2026 08:43

Considering you e just defended the poster who announced that I wanted more deaths, I don’t know why you think it should be self evident that you don’t think that sort of thing.

I was highlighting that they were clear about it. You have said a lot to justify the deaths and have repeated a lot of Israeli propoganda. I don't believe you want more deaths because I doubt you are a psyochpath but it can be hard to read constant justifications for deaths that have occurred.

I will also say again that you do not get posters here justifying innocent Israeli deaths and I find it difficult to undertsand how people standing up for innocent palestinains are instanty labelled anti Israel. What is it about people standing up for innocent palestinian civilains that people find so offensive?

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