Israel votes for death penalty for Palestinians convicted of lethal attacks

👏👏 touché

Quite right thanks for the correction there

@Pineneedlesincarpet
It would be ridiculous not to have a law against knife crime just because statistically one ethnic group are more likely to commit knife crime. That's not discriminatory. It's just fact. I'm not sure why some people on this thread have failed to understand this point. Similarly in the Palestinian case, just because one group are more likely to commit a particular crime doesn't mean you shouldnt have a law against that crime.

No one has failed to understand your points, they are rubbish points because we aren’t dealing with a country that has one set of laws and one justice system for everyone.

The problem with the Israeli law is that Israel has two separate justice systems, Jewish criminals go though the civilian justice system and Palestinians criminals go through the military courts set up by the occupation. These two separate justice systems have different definitions of crimes and different penalties. A Jewish kid throwing rocks at Palestinian cars is not a terrorist, they aren’t commuting a crime, in fact they get applauded. A Palestinian kid throwing rocks at Jewish cars is guilty of terrorism and is subjected to years in prison, although with this new law they could be executed as soon as they turn 18 in prison.
Under the Jewish civilian justice system, rampaging through a Palestinian village setting cars and homes on fire, raping women, beating Palestinians to death and blocking ambulances is heroism, but if a Palestinian attempts to harvest their own olives in their own lands, they’re terrorists planning an attack on an illegal settlement.

It’s nothing like passing a law against knife crime in the UK when the law applies to everyone in the UK and the penalties are the same for everyone in the UK.

It would be similar if we passed knife crime laws that only applied to black people stabbing white people in which the penalty was death and then we had a different justice system for white people where it’s not only ok to stab as many black people as you want, you’d get a medal if you managed to stab an entire family all by yourself.

Muslims and Christians.

@Pineneedlesincarpet
Its interesting the trials are held in a military court though, suggesting they are military combatants but are being charged with terrorist offences

Have you only just discovered the existence of the Israel and Palestine conflict? Writing this shows you know nothing.

All Palestinians except for a few with Israeli citizenship that also live in East Jerusalem are tried in military courts because they are under military occupation. Anyone Jewish no matter where they live - even if they live on Palestinian land- is always tried in the civilian courts.

This has been the case since 1967.

Being tried in a military court doesn’t suggest anything to do with the accused being enemy combatants or terrorists, it is where all Palestinians are tried.

The fact that Israel has separate justice systems divided by ethnicity was one of the reasons why the ICJ ruled that Israel is an apartheid state.

So you think the suffering of Palestinians would provide just as much legitimacy for Palestinians to introduce the death penalty for those killing their citizens?

Well yes if you ask the Jewish Israelis only it seems it is their viewpoint because of course
This isn’t a death sentence for them is it
its a death sentence for Muslims only

Putting yourself in others shoes before judging also applies to trying to understand why the idea of the death penalty for terrorism may carry more legitimacy with the Jewish electorate - as the article points out, especially after October 7th.

To someone in the UK, we see a life sentence as pretty final. In Israel, many of the electorate may have a different perspective because a life sentence may not always be final in a region where prisoners have repeatedly been released in exchanges.

Not that I am personally in favour of the death penalty but the article does make several interesting points including this one.

Thanks
‘ Broad legitimacy amongst Jewish electorate’ as I posted.
No mention of the Arab Israelis then
Mmm I didn’t think so

It is always important to put one one another’s shoes before judging. Do you post this as a way of critical posters being more understanding?

Now think what it is like to be trying to live innocently in the West Bank as a Palestinian and the many trials that this life brings. Imagine your fellow citizens or your own home being burned, not being able to farm your land, being corralled into an area where your coming and goings are monitored, your kids being frisked, arrested and assaulted in prison. Imagine your neighbours and their children returning from shopping for a religious festival being shot dead by soldiers. Imagine this having gone on for many years. Now - do you think they should introduce the death penalty for soldiers and settlers who kill Palestinian civilians? I would hope not - even despite appreciating the suffering of victims.

This was such a touching article from a different perspective:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/21/a-hidden-universe-of-suffering-the-palestinian-children-sent-to-jail

Interesting article indeed.

The Knesset approved the law on Monday, after months of debate. That legislative step does not prove consensus, but it does suggest that many lawmakers believed the issue carried broad legitimacy within the Jewish electorate, especially after October 7.

Readers outside of Israel should also be careful not to map Israeli politics too neatly onto American categories. In the US, support for capital punishment is often read through arguments about crime and punishment.

In Israel, this debate sits inside a different frame, one shaped by terrorism, war, hostage-taking, and the belief, widely held in the Jewish public, that a life sentence may not always be final in a region where prisoners have repeatedly been released in exchanges.

Thank you. I just read it - that makes more sense why so many voted for the bill if it is the majority view point.

See
@CanAnybodyFindMe post at 9:56 am today
A news article indicating opinion in Israel over time which I believe is far more relevant than a few people on mumsnet. The opinion of a few in tells us very little

Of note
An overwhelming majority support the death penalty
I assume Israeli Arabs weren’t asked given the high support stated
however even jpost wasnt sure on that

The Israeli Government is already and has been for a long time racist based on its different treatment of Arab Israelis

That’s been very clear for a long time
You either treat your citizens equally ….therefore not racist
or you don’t ….therefore racist
Israel is the later

The example for gun crime is not appropriate - firstly the discrepancy in statistics of those affected will be far more stark. I hazard to guess that 100% (or close to) of those who are at risk of being executed by this new law will not be from of the majority population.

Also with knife laws, it does not discriminate between who is killed, but this new law being discussed here will do.

A definition of terrorism:

violent* action or threats designed to cause fear among ordinary people, in order to achieve political *aims

There are actions being taken against Palestinians which would fulfil this with the clear aim is to negate the existence of a Palestinian state.

I get that the county is in a war, but the law can still be viewed as discriminatory and of concern amongst allies. I don’t think this will keep people safer, but will adversely impact international opinion. The latter view is also of concerns amongst some Knesset members too. I do hope more liberal voices in the country can transcend what is happening, for the sake of all Israeli citizens.

There are a worrying number of racists in positions of power in Israel: G’vir, Smotrich and Israel Katz. There may be others that I don’t know of.

I really hope Israelis vote the current government out as soon as possible.

It would be both tragic and ironic if Israel ended up a racist theocracy, similar to the countries that have threatened them for decades.

Thanks for replying @israelilefty - it was me who tagged you.

Clearly the law was designed to be slipped in on a day when it wouldn't get much media attention as everyone is preoccupied (2 days before Passover during a war - a bit like the equivalent of a UK law passing on Dec 23 during a severe Covid wave). I seriously hope that one of the first priorities of the next government will be removing this law.

Not sure that I am buying this. Ben Gvir has been prancing around with his noose for months now? Surely the electorate doesn't wait until the day the bill is passed before they speak up and say this is abhorrent, especially something as serious as state mandated killing of people? This isn't some out of the blue whoops didn't that coming law, this is something that had 2 previous readings the first being in Nov 2025. This is point that you mobilise against it surely not the day it is being passed?

@Israelilefty thank you very much for that insight. If i may ask, with this strong opposition amongst the people like you mentioned, how did the law pass through with a majority vote?

Responding as I saw I was tagged. I saw someone commenting "we don't hear much from Israel" - Israel has a very lively media, but I think that many people on here forget (since a couple of English-language sources are available) that very little of it is translated into English.

As someone on the political left, I don't know anyone who is in favour of the law. Here are a few comments from Hebrew-language public posts on social media:

From a religious leftist: "The law of death to terrorists is the final death of the State. Blessed be the true judge. Ripping clothes." (the last two parts refer to the traditional responses to hearing of the death of a close relative).

From a centrist religious Zionist who did a lot of reserve duty "Ben Gvir never served in the army and never had to face the taking of life. So he remains a criminal, racist hilltop youth just how he was, but now wearing a suit. ... The law of a death penalty for terrorists is an expression of the lust for death and killing of people who are brainwashed with hatred for Arabs, who didn't serve in the army and didn't serve their country. Once upon a time religious Zionism spewed out Kahana and people like him ... Now these sickos are the face of religious Zionism, and we have to spew them out again".

A rabbi on the left of centre: "I oppose the death penalty with every fibre of my being. I feel that our government has completely lost it. From theft [the government] is now moving on to bloodshed. How careful the historical sages were not to put a person to death. In the Mishnah, in tractate Makkot, it is said in the name of Rabbi Elazar ben Azarya ... that a Sanhedrin [religious Supreme Court] which executes one person in seventy years is called a destructive Sanhedrin. ... Only God can decide to take a human life."

Clearly the law was designed to be slipped in on a day when it wouldn't get much media attention as everyone is preoccupied (2 days before Passover during a war - a bit like the equivalent of a UK law passing on Dec 23 during a severe Covid wave). I seriously hope that one of the first priorities of the next government will be removing this law.

Nobody is irreplaceable and no technology is immune from replication. Israel does not have us by the short and curlies and frankly even if they did we could and should stand strong. We can do without if necessary.

Let’s hope we find other suppliers

Much of the technology we use here is only available from Israel where it was originally developed. So yes we would lose out.

Both are relevant
Neither should be ignored

We don’t have to just concider one aspect at a time. We can and should argue against both if we favour democracy and equality

So $1.8 of UK money is supporting a country running amok in the ME and slaughtering tens of thousands and you think WE would be the losers if we took our business elsewhere?

Behave.