Are people still rejoicing about Iran?

Maybe it's the religious extremism that makes Iran different?

Death to the US/Death to Israel.

Hard to normalise relations with that kind of mindset.

No, I don't think so. But how to "punish" them?

They are already sanctioned to the hilt. And it's a strange thing, to me anyway, how the US has never really gotten over Iran and Cuba for having their revolutions. And the DPRK too, to an extent anyway. But really it's Iran and Cube who are on the US eternal naughty list.

There has never been an attempt at normalisation from the US side. Until Obama of course. He and the other nations got their anti nuke deal in 2015 ( and Obama started stuff with Cuba). Iran were sticking to the deal so far as we know, things were on the path to more normal relations. Some sanctions dropped etc, in return for Iran "behaving better".

Then Trump. He tore up the deal, put the sanctions on steroids, effectively because of internal US politics. His MAGA base loved it. Iran STILL had to be punished for their '79 revolution.

Same with Trump and Cuba. Undo what Obama done. Shut it all down. Gotta punish Cuba.

So with Iran, you had this nation with a different system who were effectively being eternally punished by the US, and they were finally having the door to international normalisation slowly creak open, and Trump slammed it shut.

No carrot and stick for them. Just the big stick.

There is possibly a bit of goose for gander here.

So how can Iran be "punished" at all ? They already have max sanctions enforced by the US. No sign of them being lifted, and Trump who refuses to even talk to them.

And now compare US Iran relations with those of other states. Vietnam. A single party communist state who defeated the US in a war. Pretty much normallised relations. But not for Iran and Cuba. All they get are threats of invasion and constant " punishment" and calls for "regime change" for stuff that happened in the fairly dim and distant past.

That policy has not worked at all. So how about trying policies similar to with Vietnam ?

I mean other Gulf states are authoritarian. Near theocracies too. And they have been persuaded to get on with the world, including Isreal, with no demands for them to change their regime.

No, I don't think so. But how to "punish" them?

They are already sanctioned to the hilt. And it's a strange thing, to me anyway, how the US has never really gotten over Iran and Cuba for having their revolutions. And the DPRK too, to an extent anyway. But really it's Iran and Cube who are on the US eternal naughty list.

There has never been an attempt at normalisation from the US side. Until Obama of course. He and the other nations got their anti nuke deal in 2015 ( and Obama started stuff with Cuba). Iran were sticking to the deal so far as we know, things were on the path to more normal relations. Some sanctions dropped etc, in return for Iran "behaving better".

Then Trump. He tore up the deal, put the sanctions on steroids, effectively because of internal US politics. His MAGA base loved it. Iran STILL had to be punished for their '79 revolution.

Same with Trump and Cuba. Undo what Obama done. Shut it all down. Gotta punish Cuba.

So with Iran, you had this nation with a different system who were effectively being eternally punished by the US, and they were finally having the door to international normalisation slowly creak open, and Trump slammed it shut.

No carrot and stick for them. Just the big stick.

There is possibly a bit of goose for gander here.

So how can Iran be "punished" at all ? They already have max sanctions enforced by the US. No sign of them being lifted, and Trump who refuses to even talk to them.

And now compare US Iran relations with those of other states. Vietnam. A single party communist state who defeated the US in a war. Pretty much normallised relations. But not for Iran and Cuba. All they get are threats of invasion and constant " punishment" and calls for "regime change" for stuff that happened in the fairly dim and distant past.

That policy has not worked at all. So how about trying policies similar to with Vietnam ?

I mean other Gulf states are authoritarian. Near theocracies too. And they have been persuaded to get on with the world, including Isreal, with no demands for them to change their regime.

@RedTagAlanshould they be left alone as suggested here?

Leave them alone.
Ignore them.
Let them slaughter thousands of their own citizens, nothing to see there. (Telling them its against the various conventions won't work, they ignore everyone.) Afterall, they are only killing their own.

Let them keep funding Hamas, Hezbollah and The Houthis. They only want to wipe out Israel, no big deal.

Let them cause terrorism through the middle east, nothing to see there.

Let them continue to attempt terrorist attacks in the UK, afterall, our counter intelligence have foiled them so far....
Let them continue to develop nuclear weapons until they have them and use then, too late then, but oh well, there you go.

No of these things which have already been done worked either. They don't follow rules, conventions and guidelines. The regime must have full control. But hey ho, no problem. Then one day, it's too late. We should all ignore them and what they do and all will be fine and dandy 😊
Happy days

But the objective isnt regime change. It's at best a potential outcome. One of many.

Just as it wasnt in Venezuela. Posters claimed that Trump's actions in Venezuela would lead to democracy and freedom and yet the regime is still in place, detentions are still happening etc.

Leave them alone.
Ignore them.
Let them slaughter thousands of their own citizens, nothing to see there. (Telling them its against the various conventions won't work, they ignore everyone.) Afterall, they are only killing their own.

Let them keep funding Hamas, Hezbollah and The Houthis. They only want to wipe out Israel, no big deal.

Let them cause terrorism through the middle east, nothing to see there.

Let them continue to attempt terrorist attacks in the UK, afterall, our counter intelligence have foiled them so far....
Let them continue to develop nuclear weapons until they have them and use then, too late then, but oh well, there you go.

No of these things which have already been done worked either. They don't follow rules, conventions and guidelines. The regime must have full control. But hey ho, no problem. Then one day, it's too late. We should all ignore them and what they do and all will be fine and dandy 😊
Happy days

Leave them alone.
Ignore them.
Let them slaughter thousands of their own citizens, nothing to see there. (Telling them its against the various conventions won't work, they ignore everyone.) Afterall, they are only killing their own.

Let them keep funding Hamas, Hezbollah and The Houthis. They only want to wipe out Israel, no big deal.

Let them cause terrorism through the middle east, nothing to see there.

Let them continue to attempt terrorist attacks in the UK, afterall, our counter intelligence have foiled them so far....
Let them continue to develop nuclear weapons until they have them and use then, too late then, but oh well, there you go.

No of these things which have already been done worked either. They don't follow rules, conventions and guidelines. The regime must have full control. But hey ho, no problem. Then one day, it's too late. We should all ignore them and what they do and all will be fine and dandy 😊
Happy days

I say no. Same as I say Iran should not be bombed.

Pakistan.
Nuclear missiles. Not a maybe, but confirmed.
Long track record of aiding terrorism via groups like Lashkar-e-Toiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed. Includiing in the U.K.
Sheltered Osama Bin Laden.
Fragile democracy, more a military dictatorship.
Terrible rights for women and minorities.

Bomb it?

Iran has been weeks away from developing nuclear weapons for the past 20-odd years, or so we have been told. We were also told that Iran's nuclear weapon programme was "completely and totally obliterated" last year.

The US and Israel are trying to drag us into a regional war in which we have no geopolitical or economic interest and which only serves to destabilise the region, while drawing attention away from the much more serious threat of Russian incursions into Europe.

We were clearly told by the US in 1956 that nothing west of Suez was our concern. Not our circus, not our monkeys.

I was quite amazed at how many Mumsnetters are married to Iranians. I wonder if there's some kind of specialist dating service.

Before I answer can you see you can’t get numbers?

What is needed is a free vote which is impossible. Do you agree that is the case?

If you can't get the numbers is bombing the way to go ?

Take the PRC for example. 1.4 billion people, no free vote. Bomb them too ?

If you can't get the numbers is bombing the way to go ?

Take the PRC for example. 1.4 billion people, no free vote. Bomb them too ?

How would you get the numbers? A free vote?

What would need to happen to get that

Acknowledging the fact that people will sadly die is not the same as claiming that for a regime to fall a certain percentage of its civilian supporters would have to be killed.
People have also been dying under the regime, and not in exactly small numbers.