Iranian War Is Not The Same As Iraq

This might or might not turn out to be for the best. It's too soon to judge

Just to reply to this bit too - here is a video of nightlife in Iran in Dec 2025 - I really cannot imagine that being bombed by the US/Israel followed by regime change could possibly bring positive changes here. I think we all know whether or not it will turn out for the best.

And to take events to their logical conclusion, I don't think that the consequences for the rest of us will be "for the best" either.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KzKNNV_XWY8

When I said "no similarities" I meant "they were not regime changes"

Regime changes are generally done by the US (though perhaps forced by big business), are geopolitically motivated, usually to do with oil, sometimes land, sometimes power games.

Edit: thinking about Cambodia, though, a Cambodian journalist has told me that most of Cambodia especially the tourist areas around siem reap and oil is owned by foreign entities, mostly Vietnam or via Vietnam (and Vietnam is generally understood to be very much influenced by the US despite its politics), that the vast majority of people still live in wooden huts without running water or electricity, much of the country is unsafe, with tourist type compounds under special protection, that most "charities" there are corrupt and benefits do not reach normal people, that it is not safe to criticise any of this and it is not safe to be a journalist, and child sex abuse is off the scale. And that it seems to be being primed to be the next war zone so that all the oil can end up in big business hands. So better than Polpot, but not a happy ever after story either.

“Job pretty much done” what bloody job has he done?? 🤔 you’re absolutely right he’s caused chaos all over the Middle East, killed God knows how many, and nothing will actually change 🤦‍♀️

Trump is now saying the job is pretty much done, far quicker than the 4 to 5 weeks he predicted...

Translated as "I ve seen the market falls, the oil price rises and i need to stop very soon"

So the regime continues, they'll rearm and rebuild via oil sales and all these people who have been killed, died for nothing.

I didn't mention similarities. I was responding to a previous comment saying that regime change from outside is not acceptable. Sometimes it clearly is- I gave a few examples- ones where it was very obvious that regime change from outside was for the best.

This might or might not turn out to be for the best. It's too soon to judge.

I guess you don't know how polling works. 70k is a huge sample.

I haven't checked the thread to see if anyone watched this, but if you or anyone else is nervous of clicking on links, youtube links are usually pretty secure, and the picture will give you an indication of content. This is a short film showing the change to a girl's life in London when war came, it is made up (as war has not yet reached London) but ends with "just because it isn't happening here doesn't mean it isn't happening" and so it illustrates how devastating war is for anyone, anywhere, whatever creed or culture. I think it is a sober reminder that we should all be against war and we should support diplomacy and change through negotiation. The bombing of Iran was not discussed at the UN beforehand and has not been discussed.

Sometimes change from outside is necessary, I agree, but there are zero similarities in the examples you give. I have already explained about Hitler. Polpot's Cambodia and Iran could not be more different. Polpot taking over Cambodia is in fact another example of regime change which was absolutely horrific for the people of Cambodia, an argument against regime change.

The similarities are with regime changes such as Iraq, Libya which were also horrific for the people.

The author of the report GAMAAN is apparently an activist who wants regime change, a quick google tells me. As I say, a quick google tells me that, I am not saying it is definitely true or not true!
I had a very quick look in the report and I see that around 70K people had opinions sought - not sure if they were all in Iran though I didn't check - and the population is some 90M.

I would have thought the more "educated" would be very much against regime change just as we in the west don't tend to support the idea of revolution as such upheavel is often catastrophic, and regime changes rarely bring about positive things, we know that from history.

I wasn't referring to the Vietnam war you're referring to. I was saying the Vietnamese defeated the Khmer because they were a thorn in their side. Likewise, many countries came together to defeat the Nazis for various reasons. The Germans did not defeat the Nazis. The Cambodians did not take down Pol Pot. My point is that sometimes other nations do indeed get involved in regime change for nations not their own. And sometimes history makes clear it was the right thing to do.
Its not clear yet if Iran will be one of those times or not.

Take a look at ci@-backed coups that overthrew democratically-elected governments. Look at Greece, Chile, Iran. All at the name of preserving liberty...
The results are appalling!
Dictatorships installed. Us-friendly dictatorships, nonetheless.
I cannot understand how anyone could support think tanks, regime change, peace-bringing bombs, and a bloodshed of civilians, when there is overwhelming evidence the outcomes are significant and negative.

No, I don't think you shoudl be accusing people of lying unless you know that for sure. I agree.

When did Mahbobi leave Iran?

Have there been changes in Iran in the last decade or so? Are there videos on youtube from inside Iran or documentaries which say this?

Do you think the US and Israel started bombing to help women and protesters?

@Bringemout Bit like “greater Israel”.
The way that Israeli settlers are taking over farms and houses, building roads all over the West Bank does make one think that their will be one state Israel, from the river to the sea.
The Palestinians have no friends with power who will fight of finance a 2 State solution..

The Vietnam war was not about the Khmer Rouge. The west didn't do anything to help the Cambodians in relation to the Khmer Rouge and the Khmer Rouge had western weapons. The Vietnam war was connected to the cold war, it was the west trying to control their politics, it was an awful, awful war which would not have stopped if there had not been public opinion requiring the US to pull out. So the similarity which should be here is that public opinion is/should be requiring the US and Israel to pull out.

Hitler was a completely different situation too as Hitler told us his ideology of lebensraum and the Jewish Question for two decades and he then invaded several countries. Also Hitler was funded by the very wealthy as he was anti communist. None of this applies in any shape way or form to Iran or its leadership.

I was listening to Shiva Mahbobi (amongst other Iranians) and no I don’t think she was lying.

I don’t think anyone is when they relay the atrocities by the regime. I feel for them that it’s so hard to get information out that people can spin for the regime that none of it is happening. Just awful.

I believe Trump has said the USA will take them in.

He knows an island they can live on

Online you will find two very different versions about both things you mention here, one from inside Iran together with videos, and one from outside Iran, I am not sure whether or not you are aware of that. I suppose the main question for you is do you think that the US and Israel are bombing Iran because of women and protesters? And definitely not about geopolitical things?

Incidentally there are different versions even between what you might have read about the protests and the information you would find on the UKGov website. It is a sorry affair.

I really hope the Australian Govt do the right thing and grant asylum should the Iranian women want it.

I believe Trump has said the USA will take them in.

Aside, this is the stupidity of immigration "policies" from Reform and the Tories, the team would have to be deported, no ifs or buts....

I doubt people will click on random YouTube videos.

Those who think it’s just the west making stuff up could look to the brave Iranian football players in Australia rn.

I have had a look through, and it all seems genuine data to me, but the report itself admits issues, and I think it understates them.

For example, the survey was distributed with one specific VPN. I live in a country with similar web controls as Iran and trust me, VPNs are not easy to get within the country (the VPN mentioned in the report is blocked where I am), and this means it was a very specific group that done the survey. The survey itself says it was the "highly educated" that responded. So no manual workers etc? The not "highly educated".

There is also the "regime fear", and taking that into account, I think the numbers are well off. It's really just going to be people with strong feeling that will respond. I think the lack of "don't knows" backs that up.

Also, how did they get regime supporters to fill it out ? Would supporters not be the folk who report "trouble makers " ?

Have you read much on what the regime has done to protesters and women / citizens generally?

By this argument we should have left Hitler to it. Vietnam should have turned a blind eye to the Khmer Rouge, the French should have just left the RPF to it. Its just not that simple.

Its absolutely different if a regime is evil and a danger to those in and around it.

We dont know yet what the situation is with this one.

There is no possibility that anyone in the west could get this kind of information. Distrust of the west is at an all time high because of being attacked during ongoing negotiations twice and the allegations of west orchestrated riots (see western sources for both these things too). What is going on is to do with western power groups wanting control over Iran, absolutely nothing to do with what people there want.

Most of what we are reading in the west has come from the west.

It will all end in tears.

Netanyahu has apparently said that what is happening now is 40 years in the making, so goes back further than Iraq, but yes the impression I get from Lindsey Graham this is about territory, oil, control. I don't think many educated people who are up to date with current affairs doubt that unless they agree with the ideology pushing for Iran to be taken over.

There were protests in the last couple of days about what is happening to Iran from inside Israel, even.

Incorrect and vastly out of date information is being bandied around to try to justify the attacks. Every person protesting against Isreal and US attacking Iran is risking their lives, let the irony of that sink in a minute.