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Conflict in the Middle East

IDF confirms some 70,000 Gazans died in war, none from starvation.

317 replies

Twiglets1 · 29/01/2026 14:33

Article in The Jerusalem Post:

The IDF, for the first time on Wednesday, confirmed that approximately 70,000 Gazans were killed during the Israel-Hamas War, while disputing the percentage of civilian deaths claimed by the UN and declaring that no healthy persons died from starvation.

While various international groups have claimed that the overwhelming majority of those who died were civilians, the IDF continues to contest that number and has said that around 25,000 were Hamas terrorists. Further, the IDF has presented evidence that, through early 2024 – the period when Hamas was firing large daily rocket salvos – around 13% of their rockets were misfires, leading to the killing of many Palestinians.

There have also been other periods of time where Hamas executed large numbers of Palestinians whom it viewed as political opponents or civilians whom it was trying to prevent from fleeing an area that the IDF said needed to be evacuated. While the IDF said on Thursday that it is working on a fuller evaluation of the breakdown of civilians to combatants and estimates of those killed by Hamas, no Israeli official has provided a set estimate on that to date.

No date was given for when this breakdown will be publicized, suggesting that it will not be in the near future.

Estimates by international organizations and some media have said that as many as around 450 Palestinians have died of starvation, but the IDF on Thursday said these numbers are a mix of fake statistics or include persons who suffered from dangerous health conditions prior to the war.

IDF sources noted cases where they spoke to humanitarian aid officials who claimed that two specific children had died, but the military was able to quickly establish that they were actually still alive.

There were also multiple other cases in which the global media graphically documented children whose bodies appeared contorted and who eventually died, with the military later clarifying that they had serious pre-war health conditions that had already caused their distorted-looking appearance.

The IDF has not given a more detailed, comprehensive counter-claim regarding the list of persons the UN claims starved to death, but is expected to give significant information confidentially to the International Court of Justice on March 12.

More broadly, the IDF has said that UN aid officials in the field have admitted that their headquarters political bosses invented or exaggerated the food insecurity in Gaza in order to pressure Israel into ending the war earlier. IDF officials have also admitted that there was a food insecurity crisis in July-August 2025, but said they acted rapidly enough at the time in increasing the volume of food aid trucks to avoid a starvation crisis.

According to the IDF, throughout the war, 112,000 aid trucks were brought into Gaza, including 1,700,000 tons of food, as well as 1,800,000 tents and tarpaulin covers. During this time, 600,000 children received polio vaccinations.

Currently, 16 field hospitals are operating, and over the course of the war, 9,600 tons of medical items have been brought into Gaza.

During the same period, 5,000 international aid workers entered the Strip, while 42,000 Gazans exited to a third country to receive health treatment or travel using their dual citizenship status.

www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-884905

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SharonEllis · 01/02/2026 07:16

Ah yes, in the very early days. And he was subsequently exonerated. I think Israel's experience if that unjust execution probably shaped their approach afterwards. Eichman being an exception as his guilt was so solid.

FairPearlSnake · 01/02/2026 07:05

SharonEllis · 01/02/2026 06:49

Were you going to tell me who the second person executed by the Israeli state was @FairPearlSnake

The first actually, Meir Tobianski.

SharonEllis · 01/02/2026 06:49

SharonEllis · 31/01/2026 22:43

Who was the second after Eichman?

Were you going to tell me who the second person executed by the Israeli state was @FairPearlSnake

SharonEllis · 01/02/2026 06:46

Ok if you don't want a sensible conversation, that's fine. I mean I could counter with Palestinians just tend to stab, stone, rape, torture, shoot, and take Israelis hostage on the spot 🤷‍♀️

FairPearlSnake · 01/02/2026 06:43

They tend to just shoot Palestinians on the spot though, so …..

SharonEllis · 01/02/2026 06:42

FairPearlSnake · 01/02/2026 06:39

Yet this new law they are trying to pass does not convey that sentiment at all.

Beyond that our objection is that the law is racially designed, meant to apply only to Palestinians, never to Jews, only to people who kill Israeli citizens, never for example to Israeli citizens who kill Palestinians. The motivation is clear.

Yes which is why many is Israel are opposing it and there is a healthy democratic debate. Hamas jjst kills Israelis, no debate. And it applies only to terrorists. Its not a law against all Palestinians.

FairPearlSnake · 01/02/2026 06:39

SharonEllis · 01/02/2026 06:35

The point is that is an extreme position in Israel and Israel was founded on the principle that it would 'ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex;' Palestinians became citizens. Whereas destroying Israel and cleansing the area of Jews is mainstream in Palestinian society.

Yet this new law they are trying to pass does not convey that sentiment at all.

Beyond that our objection is that the law is racially designed, meant to apply only to Palestinians, never to Jews, only to people who kill Israeli citizens, never for example to Israeli citizens who kill Palestinians. The motivation is clear.

Twiglets1 · 01/02/2026 06:37

Bringemout · 01/02/2026 05:59

I’m pro Palestinian civilian, I remember being bewildered when the “pro pals” started screaming and rending of clothes when a ceasefire was called. They had been asking for one for 2 years and when they got one they objected. So even good news “civilian deaths are lower than I thought” is met with upset. Theres no point in engaging with those people, they are either stupid or malign.

The recent marches in the UK supporting the Iranian regime (the one that allows 9yr old girls to get married as long as her dad says its ok and kills women for not wearing a hijab) convinced me these people don’t actually give a shit about civilian deaths. A lot of them just have jews on the brain to be frank. I have no skin in this but dear god the hypocrisy and bullshit really stink.

Exactly. You can tell the ones who aren't simply pro Palestinian because they are the ones who were not happy when a ceasefire was called. This was confusing at first to people like me who are mainly supportive of Israel but have no quarrel whatsoever with ordinary Palestinians in Gaza. A ceasefire is surely something to be celebrated (even if it isn't perfect peace and there have still been violations on both sides), whichever "side" you feel more sympathy towards.

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SharonEllis · 01/02/2026 06:35

Dagda · 01/02/2026 01:02

But Israeli nationalists have also favoured the expulsion of Palestinians.

KKK symbols were made to terrorise people. But neither the Palestinian flag nor the Israeli flag stand for a one fixed message like this.

I don’t think we should start saying that these flags become a hate symbol because some of the people waving those flags say awful thing.

The point is that is an extreme position in Israel and Israel was founded on the principle that it would 'ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex;' Palestinians became citizens. Whereas destroying Israel and cleansing the area of Jews is mainstream in Palestinian society.

SharonEllis · 01/02/2026 06:26

ReturnOfTheToad · 31/01/2026 23:52

What’s your objection to the KKK? Mine is that: I) it is founded on an explicitly racial/religious supremacist ideology, and believes the land should be cleansed of the enemy race(s), and ii) it uses violence to actually make that happen. Both those statements unequivocally apply to Palestine proto-state.

Palestine isn't the first place that came to mind when I read this.....

Which country sprang to mind first then?

SharonEllis · 01/02/2026 06:18

Dagda · 31/01/2026 23:59

I don’t have a problem with Peter Tatchell myself.

But I don’t agree with your flag argument: the confederate flag was the flag of the confederacy whose central point of existence was about keeping slavery legal.

The Palestinian flag is about national identity. It is also hijacked by terrorists.

So I honestly don’t see the co-relation.

I’m Irish and the Irish flag was used by terrorists but it doesn’t stand for terrorism. In fact it’s meaning is the opposite of this.

The St George’s cross has also been hijacked by far right racist groups but I don’t think it is inherently racist in itself. It is centuries old.

It’s all about the context really.

He was carring a placard saying 'Globalise the intifada' yesterday. His claim that he was calling for non-violent resistance is completely disingenuous (or he's exceptionally stupid) and you're right, context matters. He was carrying that sign in the context of such a large rise in antisemitism globally that Jews have been killed in the US, Australia, France and the UK explicitly because they are Jews and because they are being blamed for the Israeli government. That's globalising the intifada. And when people outside the ME were flying that flag within hours of the news getting through of the 7th October attacks Jewish people knew EXACTLY what it meant.

Tatchell was also carrying the sign in the context of a march in which very large numbers of people were marching in favour of the Islamic Republic of Iran. I agree. Context matters.

Bringemout · 01/02/2026 05:59

I’m pro Palestinian civilian, I remember being bewildered when the “pro pals” started screaming and rending of clothes when a ceasefire was called. They had been asking for one for 2 years and when they got one they objected. So even good news “civilian deaths are lower than I thought” is met with upset. Theres no point in engaging with those people, they are either stupid or malign.

The recent marches in the UK supporting the Iranian regime (the one that allows 9yr old girls to get married as long as her dad says its ok and kills women for not wearing a hijab) convinced me these people don’t actually give a shit about civilian deaths. A lot of them just have jews on the brain to be frank. I have no skin in this but dear god the hypocrisy and bullshit really stink.

Twiglets1 · 01/02/2026 05:26

Dagda · 31/01/2026 21:13

So if you think that someone who is pro Palestinian is anti Israel. Do you consider yourself anti Palestinian?

Many people who are pro Palestinian quite obviously are anti Israel because of their over the top condemnation of literally everything connected to Israel from their representation at Eurovision to reasonably asking NGOs working in Gaza to provide details of staff to check they don’t have known affiliations with Hamas. Plus all they ever do is criticise Israel and don’t have anything to say any other issues in the Middle East, for example Iran killing thousands of their own people.

Others are more balanced and have taken a side but nevertheless can see issues from the Israel point of view too. I would put myself in that camp too. I took a side on 7/10/23 (having previously been neutral) & supported Israel in the war against Gaza. I support them now too as we enter phase 2 of the ceasefire.

However on certain issues I take the Palestinian side so no, I’m not “anti Palestinian”. I didn’t agree with the Israel government decision to block humanitarian aid at one point in the war though thankfully this was reversed after a couple of months. I haven’t agreed with pretty much anything the extremist members of the coalition government have said & think that Netanyahu should have been more forceful against them. I don’t agree with the Israeli Settlers or with the Israeli government & IDF enabling their behaviour.

OP posts:
FairPearlSnake · 01/02/2026 02:44

How do you spot a vegan? They tell you.

Dagda · 01/02/2026 01:08

I wouldn’t expect a softening of positions either. I’m not up to date with with polling positions but the path to peace isn’t lined with dead bodies. Whether we look at the victims of Hamas in Israel or the Palestinian civilians who died in return. Neither population will be warmer to a two state solution at this moment in time.

Dagda · 01/02/2026 01:02

GeneralPeter · 01/02/2026 00:37

I agree every case is different, and a flag being used by some unsavory people doesn’t mean that’s what it ‘means’.

I do agree it’s about national identity. I think that’s what the Confederacy or the KKK would say too (as well as many benign cases).

We have to look at what that national identity really means. What’s the history and ideology and the current state.

I’m afraid the things I dislike about the KKK are deeply entwined in Palestinian nationhood. It arose as a movement in the early 20th century largely as a response to Jewish migration (or re-migration if you like), and to Zionism.

How much one sees that instinct as legitimate is obviously contentious. The actual form it took, though, is monstrous:

The main proponent of Palestine nationhood, Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti, was a committed Nazi supporter. He met Hitler, lived in Berlin 1941-1945 as a guest of the regime, made Nazi propaganda, recruted Muslims to the SS, advocated extending the Holocaust to the Middle East, and approved of the ‘final solution’ in Europe.

His movement was not just anti-Zionist. He wanted the Middle East to be judenrein (Jew free) through mass industrial extermination.

That’s not superior to the Confederacy or the KKK.

There has been no big break in the ideology either (at least not in the Hamas/Gaza branch). It has ‘softened’ to a position that is still very hardline. Still elimiantionist (of Israel, though in reality I think this would mean ‘of Jews’), still anti-Semitic,
with a population, per Palestinian polling, strongly supportive of all manner of Islamist terror groups (not just Hamas, which one might otherwise argue is ‘just’ support for their own govt). Support for a two-state solution is low and falling, and 70++% of Gazans supported the Oct 7 attacks, with many who opposed doing so for tactical reason. It’s not something that can be said to be old and irrelevant history.

The PA is not ideologically very much better. Govt payments for killing Jews, and committed to a Jew-free Palestine, and effectively a Jew-free Middle East.

The Palestinian flag is the flag of this movement.

Edited

But Israeli nationalists have also favoured the expulsion of Palestinians.

KKK symbols were made to terrorise people. But neither the Palestinian flag nor the Israeli flag stand for a one fixed message like this.

I don’t think we should start saying that these flags become a hate symbol because some of the people waving those flags say awful thing.

GeneralPeter · 01/02/2026 00:37

Dagda · 31/01/2026 23:59

I don’t have a problem with Peter Tatchell myself.

But I don’t agree with your flag argument: the confederate flag was the flag of the confederacy whose central point of existence was about keeping slavery legal.

The Palestinian flag is about national identity. It is also hijacked by terrorists.

So I honestly don’t see the co-relation.

I’m Irish and the Irish flag was used by terrorists but it doesn’t stand for terrorism. In fact it’s meaning is the opposite of this.

The St George’s cross has also been hijacked by far right racist groups but I don’t think it is inherently racist in itself. It is centuries old.

It’s all about the context really.

I agree every case is different, and a flag being used by some unsavory people doesn’t mean that’s what it ‘means’.

I do agree it’s about national identity. I think that’s what the Confederacy or the KKK would say too (as well as many benign cases).

We have to look at what that national identity really means. What’s the history and ideology and the current state.

I’m afraid the things I dislike about the KKK are deeply entwined in Palestinian nationhood. It arose as a movement in the early 20th century largely as a response to Jewish migration (or re-migration if you like), and to Zionism.

How much one sees that instinct as legitimate is obviously contentious. The actual form it took, though, is monstrous:

The main proponent of Palestine nationhood, Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti, was a committed Nazi supporter. He met Hitler, lived in Berlin 1941-1945 as a guest of the regime, made Nazi propaganda, recruted Muslims to the SS, advocated extending the Holocaust to the Middle East, and approved of the ‘final solution’ in Europe.

His movement was not just anti-Zionist. He wanted the Middle East to be judenrein (Jew free) through mass industrial extermination.

That’s not superior to the Confederacy or the KKK.

There has been no big break in the ideology either (at least not in the Hamas/Gaza branch). It has ‘softened’ to a position that is still very hardline. Still elimiantionist (of Israel, though in reality I think this would mean ‘of Jews’), still anti-Semitic,
with a population, per Palestinian polling, strongly supportive of all manner of Islamist terror groups (not just Hamas, which one might otherwise argue is ‘just’ support for their own govt). Support for a two-state solution is low and falling, and 70++% of Gazans supported the Oct 7 attacks, with many who opposed doing so for tactical reason. It’s not something that can be said to be old and irrelevant history.

The PA is not ideologically very much better. Govt payments for killing Jews, and committed to a Jew-free Palestine, and effectively a Jew-free Middle East.

The Palestinian flag is the flag of this movement.

Dagda · 31/01/2026 23:59

I don’t have a problem with Peter Tatchell myself.

But I don’t agree with your flag argument: the confederate flag was the flag of the confederacy whose central point of existence was about keeping slavery legal.

The Palestinian flag is about national identity. It is also hijacked by terrorists.

So I honestly don’t see the co-relation.

I’m Irish and the Irish flag was used by terrorists but it doesn’t stand for terrorism. In fact it’s meaning is the opposite of this.

The St George’s cross has also been hijacked by far right racist groups but I don’t think it is inherently racist in itself. It is centuries old.

It’s all about the context really.

GeneralPeter · 31/01/2026 23:53

ReturnOfTheToad · 31/01/2026 23:52

What’s your objection to the KKK? Mine is that: I) it is founded on an explicitly racial/religious supremacist ideology, and believes the land should be cleansed of the enemy race(s), and ii) it uses violence to actually make that happen. Both those statements unequivocally apply to Palestine proto-state.

Palestine isn't the first place that came to mind when I read this.....

Ok, go on.

Certainly Palestine counts, as, sadly, do quite a few other countries.

Which sprang to mind first?

ReturnOfTheToad · 31/01/2026 23:52

What’s your objection to the KKK? Mine is that: I) it is founded on an explicitly racial/religious supremacist ideology, and believes the land should be cleansed of the enemy race(s), and ii) it uses violence to actually make that happen. Both those statements unequivocally apply to Palestine proto-state.

Palestine isn't the first place that came to mind when I read this.....

GeneralPeter · 31/01/2026 23:37

Dagda · 31/01/2026 23:10

It’s not fair to equate the Palestinian flag with terrorism. The Palestinian flag and other symbols also supports the right of Palestinians to have their own country.

The bigger picture is that this border situation hasn’t been resolved. And that over decades the settlements are growing in the West Bank. So there has never really been a political settlement here.

I think there are many people (especially in the West) who are sincere when they use the Palestinian flag to mean that only. But sadly I don’t think it’s perhaps even a majority (as in, I don’t think the centre of gravity of the UK pro-Palestine movement is anti-Hamas in a meaningful way. I accept an honourable minority, perhaps a large minority, is. But I’ve almost never seen anti-Hamas banners at Palestine marches and I’ve seen video of various examples of people being isolated for having them. Peter Tatchell was one recent example).

To me, it’s perhaps like the Confederate flag, but if that flag
were still the flag of the racist Sourhern states. Yes, if’s technically possible to fly that flag and not mean it in support of the ideology. But it makes
me very wary. Ditto you could put the shahada on a flag and not be an Islamist, but I’m going to be cautious.

GeneralPeter · 31/01/2026 23:29

Boolabus · 31/01/2026 23:03

What a lot of words to basically say you support the illegal settlers and despise the Palestinian flag and anyone that displays it and you compare it to the KKK!! Wow that's a new one on me.

If these point are new to you, I suggest you aren’t very well versed in the subject, or have never really questioned your own position.

Which other lands in the entire world, won in a defensive war, do we continue to treat as ‘illegal’?

What’s your objection to the KKK? Mine is that: I) it is founded on an explicitly racial/religious supremacist ideology, and believes the land should be cleansed of the enemy race(s), and ii) it uses violence to actually make that happen. Both those statements unequivocally apply to Palestine proto-state.

The difference between you and me, it seems, is that I’m against i and ii in all cases, while you’re happy to see excuses when it’s ‘your’ team.

Dagda · 31/01/2026 23:10

GeneralPeter · 31/01/2026 22:34

One reason they don’t might be the death penalty for doing so.

I don’t like the behaviour of many settlers, which in many cases is murderous and is often provocative.

But there’s a really crucial bigger picture here:

Firstly, this is land won by Israel in a defensive war. The borders moved becuase six countries ganged up on Israel in an attempt to destroy it and they lost.

Many borders in the world are there because of war. This is the most defensible possible type of war (a defensive one for national survival) and that’s the one we are all meant to agree doesn’t really count because the wrong side (the aggressors) lost?

I’m not Jewish or Israeli but that is a nonsense standard we don’t uphold anywhere else. It’s wrong and its perpetualisation is for racist reasons.

Second, the Westerners who declaim the settlers’ racist violence the most are often (and I am certain there are honourable exceptions) those who then wrap themselves in the flag of one of the most explicitly racist and violent regimes in the world.

Like, sure, I’ll agree that there’s a lot of work still to be done to improve race relations in the US, but I wouldn’t be taking any lessons on it from people wrapped in the KKK banner. The kind of racial harmony they have in mind is a pretty sinister one.

It’s not fair to equate the Palestinian flag with terrorism. The Palestinian flag and other symbols also supports the right of Palestinians to have their own country.

The bigger picture is that this border situation hasn’t been resolved. And that over decades the settlements are growing in the West Bank. So there has never really been a political settlement here.

Boolabus · 31/01/2026 23:03

GeneralPeter · 31/01/2026 22:34

One reason they don’t might be the death penalty for doing so.

I don’t like the behaviour of many settlers, which in many cases is murderous and is often provocative.

But there’s a really crucial bigger picture here:

Firstly, this is land won by Israel in a defensive war. The borders moved becuase six countries ganged up on Israel in an attempt to destroy it and they lost.

Many borders in the world are there because of war. This is the most defensible possible type of war (a defensive one for national survival) and that’s the one we are all meant to agree doesn’t really count because the wrong side (the aggressors) lost?

I’m not Jewish or Israeli but that is a nonsense standard we don’t uphold anywhere else. It’s wrong and its perpetualisation is for racist reasons.

Second, the Westerners who declaim the settlers’ racist violence the most are often (and I am certain there are honourable exceptions) those who then wrap themselves in the flag of one of the most explicitly racist and violent regimes in the world.

Like, sure, I’ll agree that there’s a lot of work still to be done to improve race relations in the US, but I wouldn’t be taking any lessons on it from people wrapped in the KKK banner. The kind of racial harmony they have in mind is a pretty sinister one.

What a lot of words to basically say you support the illegal settlers and despise the Palestinian flag and anyone that displays it and you compare it to the KKK!! Wow that's a new one on me.

SharonEllis · 31/01/2026 22:43

FairPearlSnake · 31/01/2026 22:05

2 actually. But lets not split hairs.

Who was the second after Eichman?

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