UAE plans to bankroll first ‘planned community’ in south Gaza

No Hamas, obviously. Settlements need to stop too. Hamas were obviously a far worse issue. Likud's tactics with the settlements were wrong and endangered Israel too, though.

Wanting a nation for Palestinians is NOT inherently genocidal.

The version of 'kill and/or dominate all the Jews' unquestionably IS, though- and that's what Hamas and the shameful 'Palestinian Authority' have been promoting onto generations.

I believe in a 2SS but there are many, many hills to climb first.

There shouldn't be total suppression of legitimate discussion of 2-state solution etc but any anti Semitism/endorsement of violence, terrorism and war crimes must be cracked down on with an iron fist.

The problem is that I'm not wholly convinced how well-placed many of the Arab countries on the board are to oversee this.

Saudi Arabian textbooks quite recently were horribly anti Semitic.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.adl.org/resources/news/saudi-textbooks-still-foment-hate-kingdoms-education-materials-are-rise-anti&ved=2ahUKEwjLvsWDjaaSAxWzVEEAHa8cExUQFnoECCUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2P_2KYokK9kgP-p4608vMB

Egypt has improved recently but there are still serious issues.

https://allarab.news/turning-the-page-on-intolerance-egypts-textbook-reforms/

Jordan has last year given out textbooks justifying October 7.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.cfr.org/articles/teaching-hate-jordan&ved=2ahUKEwjvk4TvjqaSAxX-W0EAHUU9MYEQFnoECCYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2A2-0BYtQ-urT_pHbWPMsm

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com/jordanian-textbooks-justify-hamas-oct-7-massacre/&ved=2ahUKEwjw19eKj6aSAxUPQEEAHV94EOEQFnoECGIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2erMOeqMwhT8WVzVpY8xey

Qatar too : https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=combatantisemitism.org/studies-reports/qatari-school-textbooks-remain-rife-with-antisemitic-content-us-state-department-report-finds/&ved=2ahUKEwj7tsu7j6aSAxUia0EAHXDLLGwQFnoECFYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3MEAivNdz6dt2AMCOb_af7

It would be helpful to reflect on how the U.S. backed attempts to develop a 2SS may not have favoured the Arabs. Of course there are some Arabs who didn’t want this, as there have been Israeli leaders - the current one included.

What’s happening in the West Bank shows that it takes Israelis to also want to have a fair 2SS.

That, I don't know. The previous education system didn't really excel at promoting the two state solution, after all. I can only hope some form of Gazan education system that imbues the idea is possible.

That may depend on if they can see a fair future for themselves in a 2SS?

Let's hope you're right.

Sadly they don’t need to be educated on 7/10 being a bad idea. The children and their family have lived it.

It's not solely down to Hamas, and plenty of outside actors have been stupid enough to help them too. But I presume the point is that in a Gaza still under considerable Hamas control, children aren't likely to be educated about just how bad they are and the level of responsibility they bear. Whereas it's safe to say Hamas will be up for teaching the children about the Israeli role.

Basically, it's in the interests of Gazan society for children to be educated to understand what a spectacularly stupid and self harming idea the 7th October attack was. Whether the UAE will be up for that part of the challenge I don't know, but it's better than the guaranteed glorification of jihad that Hamas would like to continue providing.

The UAE actually has it’s own version of ofsted, modelling education on the UAE is not a bad thing. I can’t think of any other gulf country that takes education as seriously. I imagine it will be things like STEM, literacy etc etc. things that will be useful to the children of Gaza and Gaza’s future.

People will need work, they aren’t slaves, it’s not forced labour. People would want jobs, their own money, not a sack of rice and a blanket. I know everyone in my family would be signing up after such a devastating war.

The point about the financial controls is because Hamas used to apply random taxes on people. It’s about strengthening institutions, financial controls is a key pillar of that, driving out fraud and theft etc. pretty much all gulf countries have gone through a lot of effort to control terror financing in their own countries so it’s not surprising this would be a key plank.

The security aspect is important, Hamas started executing civilians as soon as the ceasefire started. I for one would prefer to live somewhere where Hamas couldn’t bully me into having stuff in my home I didn’t want.

People need security, housing and work. It’s easy to be dismissive of it if you have these things.

What I don’t think some people realise is that you don’t need to read in a book why so many of your people have died and your previous society decimated. And some people worry what will be in the curriculum? I wonder if they want to cleanse the history available on social media?

Yes it’s down to Hamas too, but not solely.

I agree. It's just how we get Gazans there in a sustainable way that doesn't facilitate Hamas. I would like to be able to buy Gazan products to support the re-establishment of the economy, as long as I knew Hamas weren't getting a cut. Hopefully those options can come into being.

There’s a huge appetite for Palestinian goods and produce. As there is for supporting them back onto their feet. I would imagine once they can trade and move freely Palestinians will rebuild their country.

My starting point for this proposal is that it is voluntary, and that light it’s a very positive thing and a good option.

If voluntary, biometric checkpoints aren’t a problem either (I’d want to live in such a neighborhood if I had to live in Gaza. Not in London as the balance of risks is very different).

If it’s effectively mandatory, my view changes. I still think though that in the case of Gaza we can’t ignore the fact that Palestinian nationalism has destabilized countries across the region for decades, and is in essence a genocidal project. While I don’t love the idea of neighbours imposing their security controls/surveillance on Gaza, I couldn’t particularly blame them for deciding they must do so.

So all should be on perpetual benefits and handouts then? Is that utopia? Get free housing, education and contribute to the rebuilding of your community. If that’s a horrid deal, fine, don’t take it.

@RedSongBird

How are you defining “labour camp” and “indentured labour”?

Because I’m not seeing how what you have described would fit the usual definitions.

From Kushners unveiled plan. “Workforce Housing (Rafah): The first phase focuses on high-density residential blocks in the south to quickly move people out of tents. Planners claim this can be completed in just two to three years.”. That is a labour camp. If you think anyone spending money on this, including the 1 billion to join the Board of Peace, are doing this altruistically for the sake of the Palestinian people you are dreaming. It is an investment from which they intend to reap substantial rewards. The only work that the Palestinians will be able to get will be in the construction of the luxury towers or servicing them afterwards as cheap labour and being stateless, their movement will be restricted. That is literally indentured labour, something I thought was unacceptable in this modern world. They will have an existence with no actual prospects or self determination living in a land that is theirs but having to watch rich foreigners enjoying the beaches that are theirs.

Equally, none of the people being critical of this would live in tents in Gaza at the mercy of Hamas either.

I don't trust the UAE, but it's also worth pointing out there are no good options here. Gaza needs investment to rebuild. Nobody is going to do that with anything that Hamas can just requisition to attack the Israelis again, because one way or another it'll just get flattened. There has to be a Hamas free path, and that won't be possible without extensive monitoring.

Think posters up in arm are misunderstanding the point of the biometrics, it’s to avoid known Hamas warriors joining the new community. Makes perfect sense to me. The education will likely be modeled on what the UAE offer their own children. So unless that is full of hate and jihadism I’m sure it will be adequately Islamic for that to align with “culture”. As for claims of “Labour camps” etc. Give it a rest! Gratitude should be shown for the offer.

I'm talking about the UK as a whole.

So lets get this straight. Palestinians are going to be moved into a labour camp where they are going to be “re-educated”, have their finances controlled, finances which they will receive by working on building and servicing luxury tourist towers which they will never be able to afford on what was their land. They will of course remain stateless without self determination. Basically indentured labour from which they will never be able to escape but they are supposed to be grateful are they?

I guess the question is are there alternatives in any real sense.
If your finances were monitored not by the state in the uk (and there are checks on that monitoring here) but by another country with different values to your own and whom you have no choice in, would that bother you?

Palestinians should be as free as you are. Equality should be the starting point always for everyone.

@GeneralPeter they aren’t talking about biometrics to get in and out of countries. This is checkpoints on your neighbourhood.

As a UK citizen I can choose to provide my biometrics to enter the UK more conveniently.

As a UK resident, my finances are surveilled by my bank and can be surveilled by the state, to deter and detect money laundering & terrorist financing.

Do you object to either of these? Why or why not?