Page 4 | Arab rights movements need to purify themselves of anti Semitism

Carla786 · 2026-01-20T19:24:48+00:00

The historical roots of anti Semitism in Arab nationalist movements are very important. It does not make the cause itself wrong. What it does do, though, is ensure that very unhealthy patterns are handed down. A prominent example is Nasser's use of Nazis to write anti Israel propaganda.

Islandsofsand · 22/01/2026 07:43

Carla786 · 22/01/2026 04:59

The issue is with Arab campaigners apparently not reflecting at all on the anti Semitism that was strongly prevalent in Palestinian campaigning to quite a large degree from the 1920s. New Historians like Benny Morris HAVE acknowledged this in their books.

Can you name any Palestinian campaigners or historians who have self-critically reflected on the Mufti's Nazi links, Nasser's Nazi links and Al-Futuwwa being based on the Hitler Youth? There is much else.

I hope I am wrong and there ARE historians & campaigners on the Palestinian side who HAVE self critically reflected on this?

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Do you think it takes an academic to know that those things are wrong? Doesn’t delegitimise the basis of Palestinians grievances.

BelleHathor · 22/01/2026 06:58

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Kingscallops · 22/01/2026 06:49

BollyMolly · 22/01/2026 06:45

Would you also agree that the Zionist movement would benefit from re-examining long-standing false narratives, like the claim that the land Israel was built on was empty? What about other narratives that dehumanise Palestinians and deny their rights?

Anti semitism will continue to fuel itself as long as Zionism continues to deny truth.

No racism 'fuels' itself because what you're saying is justifying it. Yuk.

BollyMolly · 22/01/2026 06:45

Would you also agree that the Zionist movement would benefit from re-examining long-standing false narratives, like the claim that the land Israel was built on was empty? What about other narratives that dehumanise Palestinians and deny their rights?

Anti semitism will continue to fuel itself as long as Zionism continues to deny truth.

Kingscallops · 22/01/2026 06:19

Bringemout · 22/01/2026 05:45

Christ, just seen a video of pro-Palestinian protesters in Birmingham raise the flag of the regime, wtf is wrong with people. This is where extreme anti-semitism gets you, supporting a regime that regularly rapes and murders it’s own people.

That just highlights how sinister the movement is. It's so hard set in its ways, driven mainly by arrogance. It's just on another level many of us will never comprehend; destructive and impenetrable.

Original poster

Carla786 · 22/01/2026 06:16

RedTagAlan · 22/01/2026 05:30

I suppose the Arab antisemitic groups could just do the same as the Western far right has done recently. Just proclaim themselves to have never been antisemitic, say they have always been best friends to the Jewish folk, and blame the lefties for it all.

And yes, I am aware of antisemitism in Communist Russia. Communists have had a history though of disliking/hating everyone except their own group of Communists. I am not saying that to excuse them, just saying it as it is.

The Austrian corporal? Now, according to the US far right, he was a socialist. As claimed by Dinesh D'Souza in his 2018 pro Trump film "Death of a Nation". That's the narrative one will see pedaled on likes of Breitbart.

Revisionism. Is that not the fashion these days ?

That is what a lot of Palestinian campaigners seem to do. Whitewash all the Nazi stuff from Mufti, Al-Futuwwa, Nasser etc etc and act as if the only bad actions were committed by Israelis.

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Original poster

Carla786 · 22/01/2026 06:14

Bringemout · 22/01/2026 05:19

I think it’s in their own self interest. A lot of conspiracy theories about Jews, if you can blame literally everything wrong with your life, your people, your government and your place in the world on a particular people it avoids reflection on why you are in the state you are in. For a lot of these countries it’s a cognitive avoidance tactic and it suits their leaders who live secular liberal lives while encouraging their people to wallow in the worst of religiosity and sectarianism because it keeps them in power. It’s not the Jews it’s your own leaders.

The most successful stable majority muslim countries tend to be a bit more chill about Jews. There are literally only 7 million Jews in Israel, they project an extraordinary amount of power given their size. I think this is something a lot of muslim majority populations can’t get their heads around so they assume it’s scheming rather than strong institutions, less sectarianism and basic competence. Theres a lot of bitterness because of it as well.

Well wipe out Israel and your country will still be a mess, it makes no difference.
If it was genuinely about loss of life I wouldn’t be seeing pro Palestinians mocking Iranian deaths. 16,000 killed by their own government in a a few weeks, it’s shocking, 300,000 dead in Syria, no real concern about that.

It’s definitely the Jew bit but that bothers people, not dead people. Watch if America attacks the IRCG who complains about it, because it won’t be ordinary Iranians.

I lived in the gulf for a bit and remembered the muslim brotherhood MP’s in Kuwait banging on about segregation of male and female students. So who’s responsible if your population is undereducated and produces nothing of value? This was a country who’s pisa results were so dire that they withdrew from it completely. But yes the problem is definitely boys seeing a girls ankle.

Re more successful Muslim States being less anti Semitic :

It is significant that the productive Muslim empires like the Spanish Nasrids, the Indian Mughals and the early Ottomans very often treated Jews well. As Bernard Lewis points out in What Went Wrong? , the successful Islamic states were much more religiously tolerant, did not impose Taliban-style sharia penalties etc. The huge irony is that extremist Salafi & Wahhabi-influenced groups like Isis were trying to create an 'Islamic State' totally different to what actually great historical Muslim empires were like.

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Original poster

Carla786 · 22/01/2026 06:09

Bringemout · 22/01/2026 05:19

I think it’s in their own self interest. A lot of conspiracy theories about Jews, if you can blame literally everything wrong with your life, your people, your government and your place in the world on a particular people it avoids reflection on why you are in the state you are in. For a lot of these countries it’s a cognitive avoidance tactic and it suits their leaders who live secular liberal lives while encouraging their people to wallow in the worst of religiosity and sectarianism because it keeps them in power. It’s not the Jews it’s your own leaders.

The most successful stable majority muslim countries tend to be a bit more chill about Jews. There are literally only 7 million Jews in Israel, they project an extraordinary amount of power given their size. I think this is something a lot of muslim majority populations can’t get their heads around so they assume it’s scheming rather than strong institutions, less sectarianism and basic competence. Theres a lot of bitterness because of it as well.

Well wipe out Israel and your country will still be a mess, it makes no difference.
If it was genuinely about loss of life I wouldn’t be seeing pro Palestinians mocking Iranian deaths. 16,000 killed by their own government in a a few weeks, it’s shocking, 300,000 dead in Syria, no real concern about that.

It’s definitely the Jew bit but that bothers people, not dead people. Watch if America attacks the IRCG who complains about it, because it won’t be ordinary Iranians.

I lived in the gulf for a bit and remembered the muslim brotherhood MP’s in Kuwait banging on about segregation of male and female students. So who’s responsible if your population is undereducated and produces nothing of value? This was a country who’s pisa results were so dire that they withdrew from it completely. But yes the problem is definitely boys seeing a girls ankle.

Agree with all this

Apart from Syria : a lot of Pro Palestinians do seem concerned about Syria but often there is a skewed perspective where the West are blamed for supporting Assad and thus enabling Isis as if that is what straightforwardly happened during the civil war.

'If it was genuinely about loss of life I wouldn’t be seeing pro Palestinians mocking Iranian deaths' - what?? Where have you seen that?

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Original poster

Carla786 · 22/01/2026 06:06

hazelnutvanillalatte · 22/01/2026 05:13

That is because the two movements are not comparable and don’t share the same aims and context. Hence the toxicity and sexism of the Men’s Rights Movement compared to women’s rights campaigners, etc.

No.

There are genuine issues Palestinians and men have which deserve proper advocacy. Neither movement is intrinsically toxic.

Otoh, I agree that the most visible and apparently largest swathes of both ARE hateful.

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Bringemout · 22/01/2026 05:45

Christ, just seen a video of pro-Palestinian protesters in Birmingham raise the flag of the regime, wtf is wrong with people. This is where extreme anti-semitism gets you, supporting a regime that regularly rapes and murders it’s own people.

RedTagAlan · 22/01/2026 05:30

I suppose the Arab antisemitic groups could just do the same as the Western far right has done recently. Just proclaim themselves to have never been antisemitic, say they have always been best friends to the Jewish folk, and blame the lefties for it all.

And yes, I am aware of antisemitism in Communist Russia. Communists have had a history though of disliking/hating everyone except their own group of Communists. I am not saying that to excuse them, just saying it as it is.

The Austrian corporal? Now, according to the US far right, he was a socialist. As claimed by Dinesh D'Souza in his 2018 pro Trump film "Death of a Nation". That's the narrative one will see pedaled on likes of Breitbart.

Revisionism. Is that not the fashion these days ?

Bringemout · 22/01/2026 05:19

I think it’s in their own self interest. A lot of conspiracy theories about Jews, if you can blame literally everything wrong with your life, your people, your government and your place in the world on a particular people it avoids reflection on why you are in the state you are in. For a lot of these countries it’s a cognitive avoidance tactic and it suits their leaders who live secular liberal lives while encouraging their people to wallow in the worst of religiosity and sectarianism because it keeps them in power. It’s not the Jews it’s your own leaders.

The most successful stable majority muslim countries tend to be a bit more chill about Jews. There are literally only 7 million Jews in Israel, they project an extraordinary amount of power given their size. I think this is something a lot of muslim majority populations can’t get their heads around so they assume it’s scheming rather than strong institutions, less sectarianism and basic competence. Theres a lot of bitterness because of it as well.

Well wipe out Israel and your country will still be a mess, it makes no difference.
If it was genuinely about loss of life I wouldn’t be seeing pro Palestinians mocking Iranian deaths. 16,000 killed by their own government in a a few weeks, it’s shocking, 300,000 dead in Syria, no real concern about that.

It’s definitely the Jew bit but that bothers people, not dead people. Watch if America attacks the IRCG who complains about it, because it won’t be ordinary Iranians.

I lived in the gulf for a bit and remembered the muslim brotherhood MP’s in Kuwait banging on about segregation of male and female students. So who’s responsible if your population is undereducated and produces nothing of value? This was a country who’s pisa results were so dire that they withdrew from it completely. But yes the problem is definitely boys seeing a girls ankle.

hazelnutvanillalatte · 22/01/2026 05:13

That is because the two movements are not comparable and don’t share the same aims and context. Hence the toxicity and sexism of the Men’s Rights Movement compared to women’s rights campaigners, etc.

Original poster

Carla786 · 22/01/2026 04:59

Islandsofsand · 22/01/2026 04:51

And there are Arab campaigners and historians that agree with the historians in your wiki link in the “foundation myths” of Israel. If they agree, does that mean they haven’t reflected or thought about the difficulties and nuances of the situation?

Show quote history

The issue is with Arab campaigners apparently not reflecting at all on the anti Semitism that was strongly prevalent in Palestinian campaigning to quite a large degree from the 1920s. New Historians like Benny Morris HAVE acknowledged this in their books.

Can you name any Palestinian campaigners or historians who have self-critically reflected on the Mufti's Nazi links, Nasser's Nazi links and Al-Futuwwa being based on the Hitler Youth? There is much else.

I hope I am wrong and there ARE historians & campaigners on the Palestinian side who HAVE self critically reflected on this?

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Islandsofsand · 22/01/2026 04:51

Carla786 · 22/01/2026 04:00

I never said only Arabs need to self-reflect.

My post focused on Arabs as I've seen virtually no Palestinian rights campaigners reflect on their history the way for example the Israeli new historians movement have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Historians

And I think there is MORE need for Arab campaigners to reflect on this. Some Israeli forces during the 1948 war was responsible for terrible things like the Deir Yassan massacre, but they never had leaders endorsing things like 'kill the Arabs wherever you find them, this pleases God' the way vile people like the Mufti & other prominent figures were saying about Jews.

Show quote history

And there are Arab campaigners and historians that agree with the historians in your wiki link in the “foundation myths” of Israel. If they agree, does that mean they haven’t reflected or thought about the difficulties and nuances of the situation?

Original poster

Carla786 · 22/01/2026 04:00

Islandsofsand · 21/01/2026 23:31

It did and will continue to do so. However, framing this as an issue that only Arabs in particular need to reflect upon is narrow minded and will not aid longer term peace required in the region.

Some parts of Israeli civil society do reflect on discrimination against Arabs, but unless this is main stream, there is clearly a lot more work required all around.

Show quote history

I never said only Arabs need to self-reflect.

My post focused on Arabs as I've seen virtually no Palestinian rights campaigners reflect on their history the way for example the Israeli new historians movement have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Historians

And I think there is MORE need for Arab campaigners to reflect on this. Some Israeli forces during the 1948 war was responsible for terrible things like the Deir Yassan massacre, but they never had leaders endorsing things like 'kill the Arabs wherever you find them, this pleases God' the way vile people like the Mufti & other prominent figures were saying about Jews.

New Historians - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Historians

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Islandsofsand · 21/01/2026 23:31

Kingscallops · 21/01/2026 21:50

Yes because antisemitism didn't exist long before did it.

Show quote history

It did and will continue to do so. However, framing this as an issue that only Arabs in particular need to reflect upon is narrow minded and will not aid longer term peace required in the region.

Some parts of Israeli civil society do reflect on discrimination against Arabs, but unless this is main stream, there is clearly a lot more work required all around.

Original poster

Carla786 · 21/01/2026 23:20

quantumbutterfly · 21/01/2026 10:05

Indeed. I've seen enough of the playbook to know that those people have no powers of self reflection, they are on the far right side as far as they are concerned.
Hind Rajab is another pawn in their game, Kfir and Ariel Bibas can't touch their hearts.
It's not about a child's life, it's about weaponising
emotional reactions.
The sinister thing, when you drill down to the people behind the campaigns, the foundation, the app, bds...in their own interviews they delegitimise Israeli and jewish presence in the middle east. At its heart it is a supremacist movement accusing it's target of the same.
Utter darvo.

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What happened to Hind Rajab is still disputed.

But questioning if the IDF is responsible isn't anti Semitic by itself.

The problem, as you say, with organisations like the one using her name is that investigating potential war crimes by IDF isn't seen in a tragic context where countries from the US to UK to France (and of course many others) have also committed them. Instead, it's apparently seen by them as proof of Jews and Israel being uniquely evil...

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Original poster

Carla786 · 21/01/2026 23:07

quantumbutterfly · 21/01/2026 10:05

Indeed. I've seen enough of the playbook to know that those people have no powers of self reflection, they are on the far right side as far as they are concerned.
Hind Rajab is another pawn in their game, Kfir and Ariel Bibas can't touch their hearts.
It's not about a child's life, it's about weaponising
emotional reactions.
The sinister thing, when you drill down to the people behind the campaigns, the foundation, the app, bds...in their own interviews they delegitimise Israeli and jewish presence in the middle east. At its heart it is a supremacist movement accusing it's target of the same.
Utter darvo.

Show quote history

I've seen a few articles where people have pointed out that acknowledging the tragedy of Kfir and Ariel Bibas and all the other civilians murdered by Hamas doesn't necessitate ignoring what happened to Hind Rajab or the suffering of Palestinian civilians in general.

But as you say, there's a vocal subset who are clearly blinded by anti Semitism. It is a complete zero sum to them : campaigning for Palestinians, in their eyes, has to necessitate denying any connection Jews have to Israel, and moreover, clearly the ultimate aim to these people is the destruction of Israel.

This is of course extremely harmful for Jews. It's also harmful for a genuine Palestinian rights movement if the loudest campaigners insist on being blindingly anti Semitic.

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Original poster

Carla786 · 21/01/2026 22:59

Kingscallops · 21/01/2026 21:50

Yes because antisemitism didn't exist long before did it.

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Yes, this whole thread is about the dangerous anti Semitism of some prominent Arab & Palestinian nationalists historically, and how the Palestinian rights movement today needs to rid themselves of it. There can be no real progress for a proper campaign for the rights of Palestinians until this history is faced up to.

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Kingscallops · 21/01/2026 21:50

Islandsofsand · 21/01/2026 21:24

I would like to see reflection on whether there has been a racial element to the way the war has been conducted by Israel against the Palestinians (mainly Arabs) in Gaza, and Western governmental response to it.

The way the war was fought against the Palestinians and the way the Israeli government acts towards those Palestinians living in the West Bank is also going to impact on the way the surrounding Arab countries view Israel. It would be useful to reflect on this too.

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Yes because antisemitism didn't exist long before did it.

Islandsofsand · 21/01/2026 21:24

TomeTome · 21/01/2026 09:18

It’s probably more because there is little time for reflection while being bombed and starved, surely? It seems monumentally tone deaf to ponder why a people you are actively treating in the way Israel is treating Palestine, don’t loudly examine their roots.

I would like to see reflection on whether there has been a racial element to the way the war has been conducted by Israel against the Palestinians (mainly Arabs) in Gaza, and Western governmental response to it.

The way the war was fought against the Palestinians and the way the Israeli government acts towards those Palestinians living in the West Bank is also going to impact on the way the surrounding Arab countries view Israel. It would be useful to reflect on this too.

KoalaKoKo · 21/01/2026 17:02

quantumbutterfly · 21/01/2026 10:05

Indeed. I've seen enough of the playbook to know that those people have no powers of self reflection, they are on the far right side as far as they are concerned.
Hind Rajab is another pawn in their game, Kfir and Ariel Bibas can't touch their hearts.
It's not about a child's life, it's about weaponising
emotional reactions.
The sinister thing, when you drill down to the people behind the campaigns, the foundation, the app, bds...in their own interviews they delegitimise Israeli and jewish presence in the middle east. At its heart it is a supremacist movement accusing it's target of the same.
Utter darvo.

Show quote history

A child was shot over 300 times, a way to avoid that being “weaponised” is not to shoot kids, simple. No murdered kids and no one will get emotional over it - honestly! I think you misunderstand DARVO btw!

Ihatetomatoes · 21/01/2026 14:16

quantumbutterfly · 21/01/2026 10:05

Indeed. I've seen enough of the playbook to know that those people have no powers of self reflection, they are on the far right side as far as they are concerned.
Hind Rajab is another pawn in their game, Kfir and Ariel Bibas can't touch their hearts.
It's not about a child's life, it's about weaponising
emotional reactions.
The sinister thing, when you drill down to the people behind the campaigns, the foundation, the app, bds...in their own interviews they delegitimise Israeli and jewish presence in the middle east. At its heart it is a supremacist movement accusing it's target of the same.
Utter darvo.

Show quote history

This.

Kingscallops · 21/01/2026 11:28

quantumbutterfly · 21/01/2026 10:05

Indeed. I've seen enough of the playbook to know that those people have no powers of self reflection, they are on the far right side as far as they are concerned.
Hind Rajab is another pawn in their game, Kfir and Ariel Bibas can't touch their hearts.
It's not about a child's life, it's about weaponising
emotional reactions.
The sinister thing, when you drill down to the people behind the campaigns, the foundation, the app, bds...in their own interviews they delegitimise Israeli and jewish presence in the middle east. At its heart it is a supremacist movement accusing it's target of the same.
Utter darvo.

Show quote history

Absolutely bloody hear hear 👏