4 countries to boycott Eurovision due to Israel’s continued inclusion

I think it's pretty obvious that there are not lots of posters here who will only praise Israel.

It's very big of you that you "let it go" when I declined to respond to one of your questions yesterday. People ignore my questions on here all the time. I don't frame it so much me letting it go but more people having the right to engage when they want to engage on an online forum.

The Australian attacks have been talked about a lot on MN across several boards. Not many comments from the regular pro Pals from this board which is surprising from such a vocal group. But again, that is their right to only engage with things that interest them.

Yeah, that's my experience too.

And one thing I have noticed is that when I have made posts that criticise Netanyahu or the Settlers or the pause in allowing the entry of humanitarian aid ... the people who like it are the pro Israel supporters, so I know lots of them agree with me that Israel is certainly not perfect.

The pro Pals rarely like my posts on principle which I understand but based on the "thumbs up" I get from other posters, I know the pro Israel supporters don't mind criticism of Israel as long as it seems fair criticism.

I've not come across many people who only praise Israel on here either. Certainly not me. It would be a bit weird frankly.

Seriously? And get reported and deleted for personal attacks. You're grand thanks.

Plus are we haranguing posters for not answering now, because I left it go earlier yesterday when I asked you your motivation for bringing up the Australian attacks to try and paint me in a certain light and you ignored me.

Good to know.

But seriously though - who are they, Marty - the "lot of posters here will only praise Israel" ?

The phrase originally referred to the idea of recruiting naive people from the west to the Communist cause.
It now means something wider and can apply to anyone, on either side , who is well meaning but is being used by malign groups . .
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/useful%20idiot

Oh and I see the complete opposite from the supporters of Israel @Twiglets1 isn't it funny how we both only see what we want to see.

And yet knowing and acknowledging all these shitty things Israel have done we still have the virtue signalling/useful idiots comments when anyone dares stand up for Palestinians.

Who are the many posters on here who "will only praise Israel"?

As far as I'm concerned the few people who dare post on this board in support of Israel tend to be more balanced than that.

It is common for pro Israel supporters to not rate Netanyahu very highly as an example, and definitely not to support his more right wing coalition partners. It is common that they say they don't agree with the illegal settlements. It is common that they did not agree with the severe restriction of humanitarian aid a few months ago.

The phrase 'useful idiots', supposedly Lenin’s, refers to Westerners duped into saying good things about bad regimes.

@SoulSearchBeHonest oh the irony. Applies to a lot of posters here will only praise Israel. Think the term may be broadened to include them from now on.

I have never thank goodness heard anyone say good things about terrorists on or off this board. I have however heard a lot of cheerleading for the Israeli government - good things about a bad regime.

Available for over a year

The phrase 'useful idiots', supposedly Lenin’s, refers to Westerners duped into saying good things about bad regimes.

In political jargon it was used to describe Soviet sympathisers in Western countries and the attitude of the Soviet government towards them.

Useful idiots, in a broader sense, refers to Western journalists, travellers and intellectuals who gave their blessing – often with evangelistic fervour – to tyrannies and tyrants, thereby convincing politicians and public that utopias rather than Belsens thrived.

In part one John Sweeney looks at Stalin's Western apologists.

The term seems to also apply to apologists so relevant to marchers who only see bad for Israel but ignore the terrorist wrongdoing and how they have brought problems to their own people

Ironic how the term ‘useful idiots’ has been twisted and adopted on the board as a pejorative term for those opposing Israel’s genocide in Gaza.

Interesting couple of episodes on BBC World Service on the history of the term and development in more recent times. The are some striking parallels along the way but these are certainly not with the protestors who speak up against the abhorrent actions of the Israeli government.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p008z6sg?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Look I agree with a lot of what you are saying and I think many of our views are aligned . I have expressed my abhorrence and contempt for Hamas and their actions on here many times and celebrated at the release of the hostages and was shocked at the depravity of October 7th. They are of course a huge part of the problem and their actions are indefensible.

I think you are generalizing though about marchers. It is easier to think that they are against Israel that actually supporting 2 million people living under the conditions they are. There are most certainly bad eggs who would do things like tear down posters or use the marches to further anti semitic rhetoric but that is not the reality for the vast numbers attending every week. I attended a little craft fair for Palestine last week and not once was Israel mentioned it was about support for people

But if we were to argue not caring about the Bibas family etc, two little Palestinian boys were also "exterminated" by the IDF collecting firewood near the yellow line a couple of weeks ago and their deaths did not register hardly at all.

The IDF has behaved in the most vile way in the past two years and for many years before that. Should we not shine a spotlight on this or do they get a pass?. Every country that breaks human rights laws should be front and centre of the media for condemnation.

https://www.thejournal.ie/israels-security-cabinet-approves-19-new-settlements-west-bank-6910098-Dec2025/

This is today's news.

I would never defend the horrific actions of the settlers. The Israeli government appears to be dominated by extremists who have no regard for the lives of innocent Palestinian citizens.

Sadly the world is full of such governments but the focus is always on Israel. Posters have previously argued that was because Israel is a democracy and should therefore be held to a higher standard.

Regards the marches -
In London - from the very start - well before the atrocities such as the killing of Hind Rajab -the marches were full of anti Israeli rhetoric with never a single mention of the hostages or Oct 7th.

I was shocked at celebrating over October 7th on London streets, the tearing down of posters about the hostages , at the attack on an Iranian condemning Hamas by people marching for Palestine, at the absence of placards demanding the release of the hostages and condemning Hamas (as well as asking for justice for Palestinians. )
The reaction to October 7th was a catalyst for me. The parading of a dead woman’s naked body / the rape and torture of innocent kibbutz dwellers who are the very opposite of settlers. No savagery or depravity seemed to make an impression on the pro Palestinian marchers.
Many of my good friends were involved in the marches and changed the subject every time Oct 7th was mentioned. It always came back to the evils of Israel - the evils of Hamas were glossed over.

I agree Netanyahu is abhorrent. My heart breaks for innocent Palestinian families who have suffered far too much . Yes - they must have a voice and people must know what is happening to them.
It was the immediate aftermath of October 7th that changed my outlook- the almost instant rallying of Pro Palestinian protesters who didn’t seem to care about the Bibas family ( as they never ever mentioned them)

So I think the protests have been orchestrated by malign groups/ countries.
Whether or not Israel is held to a higher standard- l only know that there is more negative coverage of anything negative the IDF do than other armies across the world.
I do agree that Israel’s response has been disproportionate and Netanyahu must be held accountable. Some of the reports of Palestinian suffering are unbearable.

I'm sorry Ophelia but I can't agree that the Israeli government is being held to a higher standard than other governments.

The "useful idiots" as you call them are frustrated by the support the media and governments of many countries give Israel when they are carrying out the most heinous of acts. Something which long predates October 7th. Do you really think people would be marching if Israel were being properly sanctioned for their behavior over the last 2 years (and the many years before that). Palestinians have no voice their deaths are not important and their suffering is ignored. Despite the vitriol towards protesters on here they are standing up for a people most media ignores
. Russia is rightly a pariah on the world stage and among leaders but Israel is lauded and supported especially by Americans.

Look at the thread on the reality of what Israel has done 6 people killed in a school during a ceasefire the other day.
Settlers beating an elderly woman with a stick, 13 dead from exposure the list goes on.

Israel is not held to the same standard as other countries there's is much lower.

I think the Israeli government have responded appallingly but I can see that the Israeli government is being held to a higher standard than other governments. And I can see that the mobilisation of anti Israeli sentiment across the globe is leading to anti semitism.
I don’t deny that Netanyahu and his government are vile and racist but I think that other malign forces are using this conflict for their own ends. The Palestinians and the Jews are pawns in a proxy war .
I think the pro Palestine marches are controlled by extremists but many well meaning “useful idiots” attend. The far right Israelis are as much to blame. Their treatment of Palestinians has been disgraceful and unforgivable.
The people who suffered in October 7 were the left wing / liberal or non political Jews. I think they were deliberately targeted . Its meant that Jews feel they must rally - they are all under attack- no matter what their views are.

Yes, I know.
I think most people know that.
Not sure what your point is?

Can I ask how @CrossChecking accused people of weaponising antisemitism in their post that proved your point.
(Or have I misunderstood the Livingstone formula I read your link)

Thank you for illustrating the point.

When people point this out it is usually pointed out to them that it is a unique situation. Usually people don't rush to argue that its fine to blow up a cafe and kill 30 people because there was 1 terrorist having a cup of coffee there or it's OK to blow up an entire apartment block and the one next door full of sleeping families because 1 terrorist is sleeping there. They don't argue that it's fine to shut down the healthcare system, the sanitation system, the education system to flatten pretty much every building in some areas because there might be a terrorist there. They don't see videos of children being executed in the street and rush to talk about how they will grow up to be terrosists anyway. They don't argue that if only people loved their children more then their children would alive. They don't deny that apartheid is happening. They don't accuse human rights groups, the UN, medical doctors, the highest courts in the world as just being racist when they point out war crimes and criticise extreme violence. They dont go look at those fat mums when talking about starving children. They don't go well what about UAE when talking about Ukraine. I could go on and on and on.

It's disingenuous to omit that little nugget of information but I think we have all become used to that at this point.

When people do that to civilians of other countries it can be rightfully called out as being racist or sometimes Islamophobic if it against Muslims.

When it is done against Jews the name for it is antisemitism.

As illustrated by the phenomenal imbalance in discussions about Israel on Mumsnet compared to any other country or conflict. And when anyone points this out we are accused of trying to shut down discussion of Israel with accusations of antisemitism.

The IHRA definition is indeed helpful, but people misunderstand it. Read it in conjunction with Daivid Hirsh's analysis of tbe Livingstone formulation.

https://engageonline.wordpress.com/2010/10/05/david-hirsh-the-livingstone-formulation/