How can anyone be proud to be anti Zionist

I don't think you were intentionally anti-semitic, but I think saying 'Zionism is a genocidal force' is wrong. It was not conceived of as a way to wipe out other nations. It's not the equivalent of being anti-British Imperialism, it's the equivalent of saying the idea we are a British state and should be here is inherently genocidal.

Well I object to my post being called anti semitic. And re your example, I would be anti British imperialism and any manifestation of it.

The problem is when anti-semitism is expressed under the guise of anti-Zionism

But then how would you distinguish between an anti-Zionist and an anti-Semite, if the two are always going to look the same?

What would make you look at a person and say “yes I can see they are not anti-Semitic, but they are just anti-Zionist”?

I am bringing Zionism back to its basic meaning which is the belief in the existence of the state of Israel. I am not secular, I went to Jewish schools all my life and also through the whole youth movement, Jewish student politics etc etc so please don’t patronise me. I never said all Jews are zionists but that the vast majority are.

I do think your post is anti-semitic though. Terrible acts are being done by some Israeli politicians. British politicians have also done terrible things. But we don't all get accused of being responsible for them.

If you’re just going to twist the meaning of Zionism to fit your assumptions then crack on.

I am Jewish.

I am not sure about your Jewishness. You write like you’ve never attended a weekly religion school or a Jewish day school. You might be a secular Jew. It would explain the complete lack of depth of knowledge about Zionism and your strange denial of the existence of anti Zionist Jews when we have had generations of vocal opposition to Zionism since the start of the movement to the present day.

The problem is when anti-semitism is expressed under the guise of anti-Zionism - a big problem on the far left, and much of the moderate left now sadly. I doubt Corbyn and the like have a sophisticated understanding of different schools of Jewish thought.

Hitler was an anti zionist so he was a psychic was he?

Exactly - I had some really interesting conversations with a unionist friend where she accepted that I feel Northern Ireland should never have been created and would live a united Ireland (though not at the expense of peace) she told me she would also love a United Ireland with the Republic rejoining the UK. We both really disagreed with each other’s stance but respect that it does not mean either of us hates the other or questions ones right to live in Ireland or call themself Irish, we just have different viewpoints! She is such a lovely person but we don’t agree on that one issue.

When you study logic they teach you that just because two things share a characteristic it doesn’t mean they share all characteristics - for example as someone pointed out: Hitler was a vegetarian, Hitler was a mass murderer, therefore all vegetarians are mass murderers - this logic would give you a big fat 0 on any logic test. You can completely disagree with Zionism - Israel gained territory in 1948 through violence, rape and murder, there were multiple recorded massacres - watch Tantura! To disagree with a country being founded through violence, murder and displacement of the natives does show that a person is anti semitic, it shows they believe in human rights and equality.

I disagree with religion being at the heart of any country, I disagree with Israel and Iran and Saudi and all countries that mix government policies and legal issues with religious beliefs. I also disagree with any country that gives one group of people more rights than the other. To me the very idea of Zionism is inequality because one group is above all others and has more rights, one group is entitled to the land. This does not make me “like Hitler” it means I care about all human life.

Thankyou for putting into words what I was too furious to articulate. Coming from a Jewish woman this should speak volumes but it wont. Anti semitism and anti zionism are 2 totally different things. The original post is completely ignorant. The state of Israel was not even created till 1948, How can Hitler have been a god forsaken anti zionist?

you will find the vast majority of Jews are Zionist in the broadest sense that they believe in the existence of the state of Israel. Are you actually Jewish? You know why most believe in Israel as a principle? It’s because we all know that if things get too bad in the diaspora there’s one place in the world we can go where we won’t feel unwelcome

I didn't say they lived in Israel, if you mean me. They used to. They don't now.

Almost all Jews are zionists.
There has never been a global Jewish poll on that. The few polls done often have very small sample sizes, are only done in the US or UK, and frequently they don’t ask any questions using the word Zionism.

It is not known how popular Zionism is amongst all Jews. It’s one of those things that many nonJews/Zionist Jews assume to be the case, and then presume to speak for all Jews on.

Zionism is the belief in the existence of the state of Israel as a Jewish homeland. In no way does it mean to the exclusion of other races etc.

Almost all Jews are zionists. I don’t believe people who come on here and claim to be Jewish and not zionists in that they don’t believe in the state of Israel and I certainly don’t believe the person claiming to have anti Zionist parents living in Israel.

Zionism however absolutely doesn’t mean that if you are a Zionist you support the actions of the government. There are huge numbers of Israelis who deplore the current regime.

I am Zionist and I’m an even stronger Zionist now that it’s acceptable to be anti semitic in the UK and o think it’s probably the only place for the future of my children now that anti semitism is beyond control across much of the world

However I absolutely detest Netanyahu and how he has managed the war and have huge sympathy for the ordinary Palestinians and the hideous situation they’re in.

”Anti-Zionism” is a loose term referring to criticism of the current policies of the Israeli state, and/or moral, ethical, or religious criticism of the idea of a Jewish nation-state.

Why can't you criticise the policies of the Israeli state ?

have New Zealand or Australia recently killed 20,000 children, I think not, maybe why they are not being criticised in the same manner as Israel

Does it sound absurd? Are the people who want a United Ireland accused of wanting to wipe NI out of existence? Is there a lot of handwringing and name calling directed towards them? Where is all the wailing about how Republicans think NI doesn't have the right to exist? In Ireland and NI we have loads of politicians that think another state 'doesn't have the right to exist' if that's the way people want to phrase it. There is no gnashing of teeth over this, it is seen as a valid political stance.

💯

I agree with this

Opinions like the OPs accusing Anti-Zionists of being similar to Hitler are not only untrue but they are a major part of accusations that are speed running young Americans straight into the arms of influencers like Nick Fuentes (an open admirer of Hitler with millions of followers).

You are playing an extremely dangerous game, this isn't the left, who are now largely sitting back and watching the right fight it out.

Important Poll from America by a pollster (on the right) that reaches voters other pollsters don't and is ironically also currently being attacked as being "antisemitic":

https://www.bigdatapoll.com/blog/poll-sympathy-for-israel-falls-to-historic-low-among-us-voters/

"White Evangelical voters 18-29 yrs old by a 13pt margin say what Israel is doing in Gaza amounts to Genocide; ages 30-44 agree by 11pts. All nonwhite Evangelical voting age groups also agree.
The Overton window has shifted and name-calling won't stop it."

Hitler was also a vegetarian. And Sultana is one too! It’s all coming together!

Haavara Agreement OP.
https://mronline.org/2024/06/28/the-treachery-of-the-nazi-zionist-alliance/

I’m not one for reporting threads, but I have this one. The tone is quite simply offensive.

I'll let my anti-Zionist Jewish parents (one of whom was born/grew up in Israel) know what you think, I'm sure they'll rush to change their minds now they know you think they're just like Hitler 👍

Jewish Voice for Peace approach to Zionism
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/zionism/

excerpt from it
What is anti-Zionism?
”Anti-Zionism” is a loose term referring to criticism of the current policies of the Israeli state, and/or moral, ethical, or religious criticism of the idea of a Jewish nation-state. There has been debate, criticism and opposition to Zionism within Jewish thought for as long as it has existed. Jewish anti-Zionists span a political and religious spectrum, from religious and secular progressives who view opposition to Zionism as an anti-racist praxis, to ultra-Orthodox Jews who oppose Jewish dominion until the time of the Messiah, to anarchist Jews who oppose the very concept of nation-states, Jewish or otherwise. There are also many non-Jewish anti-Zionists whose perspectives may be informed by moral criticism of the policies of the Israeli government, problems with the impact of Zionist thinking in Israel on non-Jewish residents, and/or a criticism of ethno-nationalism more broadly. Many Palestinians take anti-Zionist positions or identify as anti-Zionist because of the current and historical practices of the Israeli state.
Criticism of Zionism is not to be conflated with antisemitism. States such as Israel and the United States are openly criticized in public life, and their political beliefs and policies are subject to critical debate, in accord with our basic First Amendment rights.
For more on the history of Jewish alternatives to Zionism, please see this blog post by former JVP staffer Ben Lorber.
For more on the problems of conflating antisemitism with anti-Zionism, please see this op-ed by NY Times columnist Michelle Goldberg.
For more on criticisms of Zionism, please see these excerpts from “Zionism from the Standpoint of its Victims” by Edward Said.