Reconstruction of Gaza - realistic?

There you have it. No assumptions, guesses, or putting words into anyone’s mouth. Despite what it may ‘seem like’ to anyone, those in charge have owned it 100%

Can you explain why your question is relevant to my post?

Ireland aren't warmongering. That was my whole point. They don't send troops to fight anywhere, they send peacekeepers. It isn't against international law not to send your troops to kill people it is against international war to sell weapons the way the UK have been. I don't see the connection you are making between Ireland not sending troops or taking in refugees and the UK selling arms against international law?

Do you have a logical argument as to why countries who advocate for peace should pay for the victims of countries who intentionally break international law and cause widespread death and destruction rather than the countries responsible? Is your argument that Hamas are more responsible therefore the UK, US, German should be excused of their role? If so I still don't see where Spain, Norway and Ireland enter the chat?

Yes 100%. They paid for the bombs and bullets that recently killed 69k+ Palestinians and continued to fund Israel for decades despite knowing what Israel were doing and continue to do in Palestine - despite the several bombing campaigns where thousands of Palestinians were murdered prior to October 7th!

Hamas are 100% responsible for October 7th but Israel and those that fund it’s weapons are responsible for the countless comparable events suffered by the Palestinians. They funded the Nakba in 1948, they funded the bombs in 2014 just as they funded the bombs today and no matter what they claim, they knew these bombs and bullets were being used on civilians.

You hold the UK and the US more responsible than Hamas?

US, UK and Israel and 100% responsible for the dead civilians in Gaza. No one MAKES you murder innocent people. As children we learn we are responsible for our own actions, if you push someone you get in trouble regardless of who else was pushing people. Israel is like that spoilt kid in the playground gorging on sweets and hitting other kids - it has always been funded by other countries and excuses have always been made for it’s crimes against humanity. It has been a murderous regime that steals over and over again since it’s formation in 1948z

Israel dropped those bombs, Israel shot those children, Israeli guards tortured, raped and murdered those prisoners, Israel held children without charge in their jails, Israel denied and continue to deny food and medicine to enter the strip, they prevent dying children from leaving the strip. Israel bomb their neighbours and steal territory over and over and over again. Yes they are responsible because they did it, they boast about doing it and they will do it over and over again until they own all the land they deem Greater Israel - who knows if they will even stop then!

Can you answer my question though? Who's more responsible?

( why am I even asking? You never have before. )

We will never see adherence to international law. Its a sticking plaster on every nation's own self interest. Every single nation on earth is the same in this respect. Ireland for example makes the right noises but have they sent troops to fight Israel? Have they taken Palestinian refugees?

You bomb people’s homes, murder their families and then say they want to leave “voluntarily” whatever way you wash it, this is ethnic cleansing.

Netanyahu in May 2025 said "We are destroying more and more houses [in Gaza] so the Palestinians will have nowhere to return,"adding that the "only inevitable outcome will be the wish of Gazans to emigrate outside of the Gaza Strip".

Also in May 2025 Smotrich expressed that his goal was for Palestinians to be "totally despairing, understanding that there is no hope and nothing to look for in Gaza, and will be looking for relocation to begin a new life in other places".

Some other Israeli ministers and public figures endorsing ethnic cleansing:

"Gaza won't return to what it was before. There will be no Hamas. We will eliminate everything." 9 October 2023, Israeli Minister of Defense Yoav Gallant

"We are now rolling out the Gaza Nakba." November 2023, Israeli Agriculture Minister Avi Dichter

“Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948” Arial Kallner Israeli government minister

“Those are animals, they have no right to exist. I am not debating the way it will happen, but they need to be exterminated”
&
“This [attack] is not enough, there should be more, there should be no limits to the response, I said it a million times, until we see hundreds of thousands fleeing Gaza, the IDF has not achieved its mission” Minister of Education Yoav Kitsch

“Erase Gaza. Nothing else will satisfy us. It is not acceptable that we maintain a terrorist authority next to Israel. Don't leave a child there expel everyone."
&
"Gaza must be burned" & "there are no innocent civilians there"
Deputy speaker of Israel’s Knesset, Nissim Vaturi

”Gaza needs to be smaller at the end of the war.” former Minister for Justice, Gideon Sa’ar

“Bring down buildings!! Bomb without distinction!! Stop with this impotence. You have ability. There is worldwide legitimacy! Flatten Gaza. Without mercy! This time, there is no room for mercy!” Revital Tali Gotliv

"One of the options is to drop an atomic bomb on Gaza. I pray & hope for their [hostages] return, but there is also a price in war," Amichai Eliyahu, Israeli Minister of Heritage

I think all of those are more responsible than Spain, Norway and Ireland who have consistently advocated for peace which is why I find it surprising that that poster believes that the peaceful countries should be the ones to help the victims of more warmongering ones. If those countries step in the is no disincentive to stop those countries killing innocent people in the middle east again, make them pay for the damage they have caused and maybe(not very likely but we can hope) they will think twice before causing so much death and destruction next time. Do this with every conflict like Sudan too and perhaps we will see actual adherence to International law rather than the money over morals approach that these countries currently have when it comes to arms sales.

I'm going out now so leaving this thread.

Just wanted to leave a last post saying it doesn't seem like ethnic cleaning to me either if people want to leave and are paying a lot of money to do so and also if they have the ability to return which according to the peace plan they can.

By saying all the countries in the world and you think it's reasonable that Israel should be the one to take Gazan Palestinian refugees? no I'm not saying that other countries necessarily should take the Palestinians if they don't want to. I don't think it's reasonable to tell any country that they have to take refugees.

Just that the suggestion that Israel should be made to do so is particularly wrong in my opinion, given that a lot of these Palestinians apparently still support 7/10 according to polls.

Against my better judgement I'll just say this to you. Read my post. I said what I said. It doesn't seem to me like families paying 2k per ticket to leave a hellscape of their own choice is ethnic cleansing, no. I asked for other peoples opinions too as its obviously not that clear cut in this case. Instead of putting words into other peoples mouths why dont you just share what you think? Then others can discuss.

Clear cut examples would be the of the Muslim Bosnians. The rural Kurds of Saddams Anfal campaign. Putting people on buses / trains then shipping them off elsewhere to be dumped or murdered. These people paid for a ticket and chose to leave. Good Luck to them, I'd do same. Its not clear cut and I'd be interested in other peoples opinions on this. Not yours though, I can guess yours well enough.

Just to be clear here, are you saying Israel totally destroying Gaza simply encouraged the Palestinians to voluntarily emigrate and therefore it's not ethnic cleansing.

That's the post I was referring to. Are you saying that in the first line of that post you are not saying other countries should take the Palestinians because that's how I read it.

Whos more responsibile for the destruction of Gaza in your opinion? The UK and the US, or Hamas?

Why does it make sense for the countries who advocated for peace to pay for the destruction caused by trigger happy countries like the UK and Germany? Hey guys we didn't listen you and helped kill, maím and destroy and left a heck of a mess behind because you guys asked us repeatedly not to do this so we think you should help our victims?! Or what exactly is it that leads you to think peaceful countries should pay for the destruction caused by war mongering Western countries rather than have the countries who happily contributed to the death and destruction help their own victims?

I missed this- thanks @Twiglets1

Hope these people can make a new life for themselves away from the hellscape of Gaza. It's certainly what I'd want for my family...

Is it ethnic cleansing of they wanted to leave and paid a substantial amount to do so?

I'd say No but interested in other peoples opinions?

I am not doubting that a significant portion of the population would now want to leave. They are human after all and need an environment which can support life, something Israel has ensured that Gaza can't anymore. A lot will choose to try and stay, knowing full well that leaving would be a one way ticket forever. There will be many who will have decided that it is now the end of their country which has been permanently colonised by foreigners. Better to eke out an existence as refugees in a foreign country than continue to endure the hell that Israel has wrought upon them and will continue to do so if they don't leave.

I didn't say that other countries "should" take responsibility for the Palestinians.

What I actually said to you was You are very free with other peoples money if you think countries should pay to start rebuilding Gaza while the IDF is still bombing underground tunnels so the devastation to Gaza continues.

It is largely the Gazans own leaders that have caused this mess by starting a war with Israel, so my personal opinion is that Hamas should have all their money and assets frozen for a start. They can take some responsibility for the rebuilding of Gaza because other countries will only do it if there is something in it for them financially speaking.

No country seems keen to take Gazan refugees which is somewhat understandable to me because of the militant threat amongst men of fighting age.

Rwanda perhaps? 😵‍💫

Well if we are guessing, then my guess would be that it was possibly a trial run. 2 planes over a couple of weeks, forced displacement of a few hundred Palestinians at least. Unfortunately South Africa have said they won’t take any more in. Where next, I wonder?

Nope. A guess is purely my speculation based on my knowledge. I don't think I'm right. Its a guess.

An assumption would be something I believe to be correct despite not having proof. Implies a confidence I am not claiming to have.

Different, different.

A guess, an assumption. Same, same.

No, not assuming, just a guess, haven't read it anywhere.

It’s Al Jazeera, but…….

Al Jazeera has unearthed new evidence connecting the group organising the transfer of Palestinians to an Israeli-Estonian man, Tomer Lind, who has ties to the Israeli government.

I apologise if I rephrased it incorrectly but what I got from your post is that other countries should take responsibility for the Palestinians even though it was Israel that actually demolished Gaza. If that's not what you said, please correct me.