Reconstruction of Gaza - realistic?

The obsession with hating Israel. Thought that was obvious.

And @Everexpanding the Israel hate didn’t start on 7/10 or with the casualties from the subsequent war. There was glee from some quarters when Israel was attacked even on Mumsnet.

Historically, other countries have plenty to be ashamed about with regard to their treatment of indigenous peoples. Yet people still obsess over the history of Israel more than other countries.

Jeez you really are twisting history:

The mass exodus of Jews from Baghdad and the rest of Iraqoccurred primarily in the early 1950s, driven by severe state persecution, anti-Jewish sentiment, and a specific law that required them to forfeit their citizenship to leave the country. This process culminated in the airlifting of over 120,000 Jews to Israel in Operation Ezra and Nehemiah.

So it was clearly the Iraqi State and anti Jewish sentiment that caused the Baghdad Jews to leave and not "European Zionism ".

However I am genuinely interested as to how you have come to believe that Jews leaving Baghdad was due to "European Zionism" and not the easily accessible facts shown above. Is this because someone told you this or just simply a hatred of Jews ?

@Twiglets1 Israel has recently killed 69,000 Palestinians, Australia, America and New Zealand have not recently carried out such massacres and as @Thedawnchorus pointed out, they do not operate as apartheid states, indigenous people have equal rights, that is why Israel

Is this a joke? You've posted daily about Israel for months and months and months...

Thank you for sharing your knowledge on this.

You are saying exactly that by delegitimating their connection to the land. Noone here argues the Palestinians shouldn't have a right to self determination. Its a straw man.

People aren’t going on about Australia, New Zealand or the US not being “in the right place” or questioning their legitimacy to exist or … can’t see the rest of your rant against Israel because it got deleted by MN.

Thats why the question gets raised- what’s so special about Israel? ( apart from being full of Jewish people).

I am not saying that Jews should not have a right to self-determination in the land of Israel. I'm saying the Palestinians should to.

The word "invited" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here!

Currently writing this from Amman, Jordan, actually. Whenever you run into any of the "invitees" around here you will swiftly learn that the receptionist is from Haifa and the cabbie from Jenin. They'll be equally as quick to inform you about how their families ended up here. The word "invitation" tends not to come up ...

As for your "how that went": I'll assume that's an allusion to Ayul Al-Aswad? That's an genuinely fascinating rabbit hole that doesn't quite back up the implied claim ...

100% this.

This constant repetition of the lie that Israel is born of European colonialism is really actually quite dangerous. It legitimizes hatred for the state as a whole.

The facts are-

Jewish people originated in the land of Judea. Genetic studies prove this. Some Palestinian people do too. They are close to cousins, genetically speaking.

Despite oppression from many groups, Babylonians, Romans, Christians, Arabs, Turks, British- Jewish people have always lived on this land- sometimes only in a tiny minority.

The remains of a lot of Jewish architecture are amongst the oldest in Jerusalem. The remains of the second temple are underneath the Haram Al Sharif.

It is categorically untrue that Jewish people have no links to the land. Both Jewish and Palestinian people have links to the land. Anything else is a lie. People should ask themselves why this lie is being repeatly told on here, when its so easily disproven.

Its clear to me the lie is being told in an attempt to whip up hatred for the State of Israel. By all means lets debate Israel's oppression of the Palestinians, the responsibility for the Nakba, the abuses of the current Israeli government and the bloody settlers.

But lets have no more of this lie that Jewish people have no links to the land.

There is no question that colonization was a common practice centuries ago. Australia, New Zealand, the US, etc. etc. It is a practice which is now unacceptable to the international community. See resolution 1514 of the United Nations General Assembly. In all of those countries though, the indigenous population have equal rights, unlike the Palestinians. The "obsession with Israel" as you put it, is because it is ongoing with the Palestinians suffering for decades and if our so called leaders are going to continue to support Israel unconditionally, it is up to the people to express solidarity with the oppressed Palestinians.

This.

Its tiny, its the only one it's there. The rest of the middle east isn’t Jewish its predominantly Muslim. Some cannot tolerate a tiny predominantly Jewish country, so use terrorism and that ends badly for everyone.

And Jordan? Why did they cause so much 'mayhem' (to put it politely) in Jordan, who were helpingthem. Perhaps dont bite the hand that feeds or helps? I mean trying to overthrow the Jordanian government and spread the problems they have apparently fled from. No wonder some/many countries are reluctant. How do you work out civilian men from Hamas when Hamas are cowardly hiding amongst innocents.

And the delegitimation of the Jewish right to self-determination in Israel comes under the IHRA definition of antisemitism.

Lots of countries were established in ways many wouldn’t agree with.

The obsession with Israel & just Israel is unhealthy.

Whether you like it or not and whatever the historical grievances against the establishment of the state of Israel, it exists.

Israel exists as a sovereign state and is recognised as such by the international community.

It is the only Jewish state in the world and is 1/25th the size of France. Your views that “it doesn’t belong” where it exists are irrelevant.

Firstly any migration from Gaza must be voluntary with the right to return.

In answer to your question about why should countries such as Ireland, Spain and Norway be the countries to take in such Gazan refugees, then it is simply because those countries have been the ones most sympathetic to the Palestinian cause and therefore presumably the populations of Ireland, Spain and Norway would be much more welcoming to Gazan refugees than say if they went to the USA or Germany.

If I was a refugee fleeing Gaza then I would much rather go to a country where I would actually be welcomed like Ireland, Spain or Norway.

Who are the European invaders with no connection to the land who are pretending they belong in the Middle East?

What I don’t understand about this place is that we love to say “when a man tells you who he is, believe him” yet when these genocidal monsters in the Israeli government tell us exactly who they are and what they want, people fall over themselves to not believe them and endlessly give them the benefit of the doubt.

Voluntary emigration my arse.

Jordan invited lots of Palestinians in and look how that went 🙄