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Conflict in the Middle East

How far does bbc impartially go?

86 replies

dinodora · 31/10/2025 06:30

Saw Giles Peterson live with Jamz super nova (well, we missed her unfortunately.)

They fill Saturday afternoons one after the other every week on BBC 6 music. It was not a bbc event though.

He played beautiful song which I then realised was about Palestine. And it specifically included the phrases “from the river to the sea.”several times. Much cheering and whopping afterwards.

I’m just querying if bbc impartially extends to DJs playing publicly but in their own capacity as an artist.

OP posts:
Thedawnchorus · 11/11/2025 10:15

SharonEllis · 11/11/2025 09:36

Is anything in twiglets post inaccurate? Everyone has bias. It does not necessarily mean they are incapable of factual accuracy.

Aah. So you mean just because some people think the BBC is biased, it does not mean that what it's reporting is untrue.

I don't watch BBC Arabic so it's difficult to comment on it but if there is going to bias, I could well believe it is likely to be on the Arabic channel for obvious reasons although I'd need more evidence to be sure of it than has been presented.

What do you mean by inaccurate? Has someone else said them. I assume so so simply reposting them is not inaccurate. Of course the factual legitimacy of those claims, that's something else. Let's take one as I'm not going to go through them all. "The BBC as a whole gave ‘unjustifiable weight’ to Hamas casualty figures". Who made the decision that quoting Hamas casualty figures is unjustifiable when they have always been accurate in all past conflicts in Gaza.

Ihatetomatoes · 11/11/2025 09:42

This. There is an entire dossier of bias and misinformation on the BBC which lots of news channels are sharing. The Trump misinformation is the one most are running with, since he suggests he might sue the BBC.

Ihatetomatoes · 11/11/2025 09:38

Twiglets1 · 11/11/2025 08:45

Summary of BBC bias exposed by leaked BBC memo relating to Gaza:

  • BBC Arabic had very little reporting on Israeli suffering at the hands of Hamas or criticism of the terror group.
  • BBC Arabic devoted huge swathes of articles to statements from Hamas and Hezbollah, denying factually accurate stories.
  • BBC Arabic described Hamas’s terror attacks as ‘military operations’ and barely covered the deaths of Israeli hostages.
  • BBC Arabic published fake news, such as Iranian and Syrian claims that Israel had staged an attack on children in the Golan as a pretext for attacking Hezbollah.
  • BBC Arabic gave a platform to journalists who had openly glorified terrorism hundreds of times, but inaccurately downplayed them as ‘eyewitnesses’ in a public statement.
  • The BBC as a whole gave ‘unjustifiable weight’ to Hamas casualty figures.
  • BBC journalists reported extensively on the fact that Palestinians had been digging graves near Al Nasser and Al Shifa hospitals. Later, the same journalists strongly implied that Israel had dug the graves to bury mass casualties in subsequent reports.
  • BBC Newsnight repeated the false claim that ‘14,000 babies’ would die within ‘48 hours’ even though it had already been exposed as false. In the same programme, it also aired pictures of an emaciated child as an example of starvation, even though they had already been exposed as showing a congenital oesophageal condition.
  • Various BBC platforms spread fake news about starvation in Gaza and were sometimes forced to make corrections.
  • BBC News did not inform viewers that, under international law, hospitals were allowed to be targeted when they were being used as military bases.
  • The BBC lavished extensive coverage upon a letter signed by 600 lawyers claiming that Britain was breaking international law in selling arms to Israel, but largely ignored a letter signed by 1,000 lawyers arguing the opposite.
  • Hamas tunnels were sanitised as being used to ‘move goods and people’, rather than for jihadi operations.
  • Numerous BBC channels repeatedly suggested that the International Court of Justice had ruled there was a ‘plausible genocide’ in Gaza, despite the fact that the ICJ president herself had debunked this claim on one of the BBC’s own programmes.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/11/10/how-the-bbc-became-the-propaganda-arm-of-hamas/

The BBC have been found to rush stories out rather than fact check on Gaza. Just because Hamas claim only woman and children are the victims, it doesn't make it true.

SharonEllis · 11/11/2025 09:36

Thedawnchorus · 11/11/2025 09:30

This is how much research I could be bothered to do on this. Hey Gemini, is spiked internet magazine pro Israel? Answer, "Yes, the internet magazine Spiked (also known as Spiked Online) generally adopts a strong pro-Israel and anti-anti-Zionist editorial stance". Ironic that you use a biased platform to highlight bias on another platform.

Is anything in twiglets post inaccurate? Everyone has bias. It does not necessarily mean they are incapable of factual accuracy.

Thedawnchorus · 11/11/2025 09:30

Twiglets1 · 11/11/2025 08:45

Summary of BBC bias exposed by leaked BBC memo relating to Gaza:

  • BBC Arabic had very little reporting on Israeli suffering at the hands of Hamas or criticism of the terror group.
  • BBC Arabic devoted huge swathes of articles to statements from Hamas and Hezbollah, denying factually accurate stories.
  • BBC Arabic described Hamas’s terror attacks as ‘military operations’ and barely covered the deaths of Israeli hostages.
  • BBC Arabic published fake news, such as Iranian and Syrian claims that Israel had staged an attack on children in the Golan as a pretext for attacking Hezbollah.
  • BBC Arabic gave a platform to journalists who had openly glorified terrorism hundreds of times, but inaccurately downplayed them as ‘eyewitnesses’ in a public statement.
  • The BBC as a whole gave ‘unjustifiable weight’ to Hamas casualty figures.
  • BBC journalists reported extensively on the fact that Palestinians had been digging graves near Al Nasser and Al Shifa hospitals. Later, the same journalists strongly implied that Israel had dug the graves to bury mass casualties in subsequent reports.
  • BBC Newsnight repeated the false claim that ‘14,000 babies’ would die within ‘48 hours’ even though it had already been exposed as false. In the same programme, it also aired pictures of an emaciated child as an example of starvation, even though they had already been exposed as showing a congenital oesophageal condition.
  • Various BBC platforms spread fake news about starvation in Gaza and were sometimes forced to make corrections.
  • BBC News did not inform viewers that, under international law, hospitals were allowed to be targeted when they were being used as military bases.
  • The BBC lavished extensive coverage upon a letter signed by 600 lawyers claiming that Britain was breaking international law in selling arms to Israel, but largely ignored a letter signed by 1,000 lawyers arguing the opposite.
  • Hamas tunnels were sanitised as being used to ‘move goods and people’, rather than for jihadi operations.
  • Numerous BBC channels repeatedly suggested that the International Court of Justice had ruled there was a ‘plausible genocide’ in Gaza, despite the fact that the ICJ president herself had debunked this claim on one of the BBC’s own programmes.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/11/10/how-the-bbc-became-the-propaganda-arm-of-hamas/

This is how much research I could be bothered to do on this. Hey Gemini, is spiked internet magazine pro Israel? Answer, "Yes, the internet magazine Spiked (also known as Spiked Online) generally adopts a strong pro-Israel and anti-anti-Zionist editorial stance". Ironic that you use a biased platform to highlight bias on another platform.

Twiglets1 · 11/11/2025 08:45

Summary of BBC bias exposed by leaked BBC memo relating to Gaza:

  • BBC Arabic had very little reporting on Israeli suffering at the hands of Hamas or criticism of the terror group.
  • BBC Arabic devoted huge swathes of articles to statements from Hamas and Hezbollah, denying factually accurate stories.
  • BBC Arabic described Hamas’s terror attacks as ‘military operations’ and barely covered the deaths of Israeli hostages.
  • BBC Arabic published fake news, such as Iranian and Syrian claims that Israel had staged an attack on children in the Golan as a pretext for attacking Hezbollah.
  • BBC Arabic gave a platform to journalists who had openly glorified terrorism hundreds of times, but inaccurately downplayed them as ‘eyewitnesses’ in a public statement.
  • The BBC as a whole gave ‘unjustifiable weight’ to Hamas casualty figures.
  • BBC journalists reported extensively on the fact that Palestinians had been digging graves near Al Nasser and Al Shifa hospitals. Later, the same journalists strongly implied that Israel had dug the graves to bury mass casualties in subsequent reports.
  • BBC Newsnight repeated the false claim that ‘14,000 babies’ would die within ‘48 hours’ even though it had already been exposed as false. In the same programme, it also aired pictures of an emaciated child as an example of starvation, even though they had already been exposed as showing a congenital oesophageal condition.
  • Various BBC platforms spread fake news about starvation in Gaza and were sometimes forced to make corrections.
  • BBC News did not inform viewers that, under international law, hospitals were allowed to be targeted when they were being used as military bases.
  • The BBC lavished extensive coverage upon a letter signed by 600 lawyers claiming that Britain was breaking international law in selling arms to Israel, but largely ignored a letter signed by 1,000 lawyers arguing the opposite.
  • Hamas tunnels were sanitised as being used to ‘move goods and people’, rather than for jihadi operations.
  • Numerous BBC channels repeatedly suggested that the International Court of Justice had ruled there was a ‘plausible genocide’ in Gaza, despite the fact that the ICJ president herself had debunked this claim on one of the BBC’s own programmes.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/11/10/how-the-bbc-became-the-propaganda-arm-of-hamas/

How the BBC became the propaganda arm of Hamas

The leaked memo has laid bare the broadcaster's vicious Israelophobia.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/11/10/how-the-bbc-became-the-propaganda-arm-of-hamas/

Twiglets1 · 10/11/2025 08:00

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 10/11/2025 07:15

The irony of saying that news should be neutral when quoting the Telegraph...

The Telegraph have a right wing bias which they admit as openly as the Guardian admits they have a left wing bias.

The BBC is different though - they are supposed to be neutral because they are funded differently as a public corporation not a private company.

The Telegraph have exposed things about the BBC showing their lack of impartiality. That is a problem for the BBC which is why two of their top people resigned yesterday and an apology is expected later today.

There is a whole thread on it if you are at all interested in finding out more about what the dossier against the BBC has uncovered. The dossier wasn’t written by Telegraph journalists, but they have bought it to the attention of their readers.

Ihatetomatoes · 10/11/2025 07:23

He added: “That the BBC has helped to push Hamas lies around the world and fuelled anti-Semitism at home cannot now be in doubt.

(Something many already realised was happening. )

The BBC was plunged into crisis on Monday when The Telegraph disclosed that a Panorama documentary doctored a speech by Donald Trump which made it look as though he had incited the Capitol Hill riots.

They have their own narrative to push.

Ihatetomatoes · 10/11/2025 07:19

The BBC’s Arabic news service chose to “minimise Israeli suffering” in the war in Gaza so it could “paint Israel as the aggressor”, according to an internal report by a whistleblower.

Allegations made against Israel were “raced to air” without adequate checks, the memo says, suggesting either carelessness or “a desire always to believe the worst about Israel”.

Edited since didn't cut and paste entire paragraph

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 10/11/2025 07:15

BrinkWomanship · 04/11/2025 21:46

This article strongly indicates that bbc news is biased: BBC’s bias ‘pushed Hamas lies around the world’.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/d4a3a0bd0cffa5ee

News should be neutral.

The irony of saying that news should be neutral when quoting the Telegraph...

Ihatetomatoes · 10/11/2025 07:11

dinodora · 31/10/2025 06:30

Saw Giles Peterson live with Jamz super nova (well, we missed her unfortunately.)

They fill Saturday afternoons one after the other every week on BBC 6 music. It was not a bbc event though.

He played beautiful song which I then realised was about Palestine. And it specifically included the phrases “from the river to the sea.”several times. Much cheering and whopping afterwards.

I’m just querying if bbc impartially extends to DJs playing publicly but in their own capacity as an artist.

They are not impartial. They have a narrative that they push. The organisation needs sorting out.

Thedawnchorus · 06/11/2025 10:14

dairydebris · 06/11/2025 09:25

Here is the report ( on the report ) on sexual violence on 7 October from the UN.

When this calling into doubt of rape being a part of 7 October I always imagine these people could only accept actually standing over the women as they are raped as proof.

Its beyond disgusting.

Please note the PP use of the word 'fighters' to describe Hamas.

https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm

Please please lets consider when we engage with some posters it gives them a platform for their extreme views.

Interesting how you're posting a link to the UN report which I already referenced when I first responded to @SharonEllis post on this subject where I was asked if rape was independently verified, in other words proven. What exactly does that report say?

Thedawnchorus · 06/11/2025 09:45

Twiglets1 · 06/11/2025 09:33

I don’t think the BBC are the worst offenders by any stretch re media bias. That’s why I do still use them as a news source.

But I think they are kidding themselves if they think they are trying as hard as they could be to simply report the facts. They are choosing to leave out the fact that Hamas is a terrorist organisation in the UK. They are choosing to focus on uncovering Israeli lies with BBC verify. Yet they consistently mention that Israel doesn’t allow independent journalists into Gaza.

Yes that is “fact”. So is Hamas being terrorists a fact.

Hamas has repeatedly tried to deny that there were rapes on October the 7th. The BBC posted the report as highlighted in the link that @SharonEllis posted. Whose lies does that report try to identify.

38thparallel · 06/11/2025 09:38

Yes, I think they may get into trouble over that.

I doubt they will. A BBC spokesperson will say ‘lessons have been learned’ and they’ll carry on as they always do.

Thedawnchorus · 06/11/2025 09:37

SharonEllis · 06/11/2025 09:15

What an utterly appalling place we have reached. Do you disbelieve all women who say they have been raped or just Jewish women?

There is absolutely no doubt that women were raped and sexually abused on 7 October and any attempt to undermine, cast doubt and delegitimise the testimony of victims and witnesses is in effect shilling for Hamas.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1mz8gxzg82o.amp

At what point did I say I disbelieve them. I do question statements made by the Israeli government though, primarily because they have lied too many times. If an actual independent investigation concluded irrevocably that Hamas fighters did rape, not only would I not be surprised, I actually expect it would. As far as shilling for Hamas, I haven't read any witness statements or heard the name of a victim. If you have, I am more than happy to be educated. As I said, it is not that I don't believe it happened, I honestly don't know who to believe because of all the hyperbole and propaganda on both sides.

Twiglets1 · 06/11/2025 09:33

Thedawnchorus · 06/11/2025 09:22

I didn't and neither do the UN deny that Hamas stole aid, just the quantities which Israel claim, 87% is what they claim I believe.

Pro-Israelis feel the BBC is biased towards the Palestinians and Pro-Palestinians feel the BBC is biased towards Israel. Arguing about this is not going to change anything. The BBC have declared their policy which they have clearly stated is to remain impartial to both sides by not designating either side one way or the or the other. I believe they are genuinely trying; perhaps sometimes not successfully; to simply report on facts without nuance, as I said.

I don’t think the BBC are the worst offenders by any stretch re media bias. That’s why I do still use them as a news source.

But I think they are kidding themselves if they think they are trying as hard as they could be to simply report the facts. They are choosing to leave out the fact that Hamas is a terrorist organisation in the UK. They are choosing to focus on uncovering Israeli lies with BBC verify. Yet they consistently mention that Israel doesn’t allow independent journalists into Gaza.

Yes that is “fact”. So is Hamas being terrorists a fact.

dairydebris · 06/11/2025 09:25

SharonEllis · 06/11/2025 09:15

What an utterly appalling place we have reached. Do you disbelieve all women who say they have been raped or just Jewish women?

There is absolutely no doubt that women were raped and sexually abused on 7 October and any attempt to undermine, cast doubt and delegitimise the testimony of victims and witnesses is in effect shilling for Hamas.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1mz8gxzg82o.amp

Here is the report ( on the report ) on sexual violence on 7 October from the UN.

When this calling into doubt of rape being a part of 7 October I always imagine these people could only accept actually standing over the women as they are raped as proof.

Its beyond disgusting.

Please note the PP use of the word 'fighters' to describe Hamas.

https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm

Please please lets consider when we engage with some posters it gives them a platform for their extreme views.

Reasonable Grounds to Believe Conflict-Related Sexual Violence Occurred in Israel During 7 October Attacks, Senior UN Official Tells Security Council | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases

There are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence — including rape and gang-rape — occurred across multiple locations of Israel and the Gaza periphery during the attacks on 7 October 2023, a senior United Nations official re...

https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm

Thedawnchorus · 06/11/2025 09:22

Twiglets1 · 06/11/2025 08:53

There is footage of Hamas stealing aid & eyewitness testimony and I think it’s delusional for anyone to think they don’t steal aid when they were effectively running Gaza. The exact amounts can be debated forever & like you, I have no interest in arguing about that. I think most people basically know that Hamas stole a lot of aid intended for innocent civilians, and that Hamas lie about that. The amount of aid they stole may have been exaggerated or not - we don’t know.

The BBC do often state the fact that Israel don’t allow international journalists into Gaza, they also will post reports saying Israel have lied about things.

But they don’t state that Hamas are a terrorist organisation or put much emphasis on the lies they have told. There’s no BBC Verify I’m aware of that exposes Hamas lies which suggests they are only interested in Israeli lies.

I didn't and neither do the UN deny that Hamas stole aid, just the quantities which Israel claim, 87% is what they claim I believe.

Pro-Israelis feel the BBC is biased towards the Palestinians and Pro-Palestinians feel the BBC is biased towards Israel. Arguing about this is not going to change anything. The BBC have declared their policy which they have clearly stated is to remain impartial to both sides by not designating either side one way or the or the other. I believe they are genuinely trying; perhaps sometimes not successfully; to simply report on facts without nuance, as I said.

SharonEllis · 06/11/2025 09:15

Thedawnchorus · 06/11/2025 09:07

This is not what the OP was asking but never mind, if you want to bring it to that, I'll tell what I think. I don't know as I've heard many conflicting reports. You're asking about independent verification. The UN's Special Representative, Pramila Patten, concluded that there was reasonable grounds to believe that rape occurred. Deniers express skepticism regarding the origin and reliability of the evidence presented, especially concerning the impartiality of the initial evidence collectors and the Israeli governments initial fabricated atrocities which have now been debunked. Therefore, from what I have read, rape has not been independently verified or legally proven beyond a doubt, but the evidence that it did occur is there and I can certainly believe Hamas fighters would be more than capable of it.

What an utterly appalling place we have reached. Do you disbelieve all women who say they have been raped or just Jewish women?

There is absolutely no doubt that women were raped and sexually abused on 7 October and any attempt to undermine, cast doubt and delegitimise the testimony of victims and witnesses is in effect shilling for Hamas.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1mz8gxzg82o.amp

Thedawnchorus · 06/11/2025 09:07

SharonEllis · 06/11/2025 08:22

Are you saying it has not been 'independently verified' that Hamas fighters committed rape on 7 October?

This is not what the OP was asking but never mind, if you want to bring it to that, I'll tell what I think. I don't know as I've heard many conflicting reports. You're asking about independent verification. The UN's Special Representative, Pramila Patten, concluded that there was reasonable grounds to believe that rape occurred. Deniers express skepticism regarding the origin and reliability of the evidence presented, especially concerning the impartiality of the initial evidence collectors and the Israeli governments initial fabricated atrocities which have now been debunked. Therefore, from what I have read, rape has not been independently verified or legally proven beyond a doubt, but the evidence that it did occur is there and I can certainly believe Hamas fighters would be more than capable of it.

Twiglets1 · 06/11/2025 08:53

Thedawnchorus · 06/11/2025 07:37

Here's the problem. All the lies you're attributing to Hamas have not been independently verified. I'm not saying they are not lies but for example, let's take the stealing of aid. I've heard both sides. Israel says Hamas steals most of the aid but the UN denied that Hamas steals the huge percentages of aid cited by Israel. To the contrary, they claim that the majority of the aid intercepted is by desperately hungry civilians. Now I don't want to get into an argument about this subject because, once again, without independent verification, we just don't know what the actual truth is.

What about if the BBC reported like this. "Hamas, a proscribed terrorist group, who have lied in the past, said 'this'. Israel, who don't allow international journalists into Gaza and have lied in the past said 'this'. That would be unbiased and impartial wouldn't it.

There is footage of Hamas stealing aid & eyewitness testimony and I think it’s delusional for anyone to think they don’t steal aid when they were effectively running Gaza. The exact amounts can be debated forever & like you, I have no interest in arguing about that. I think most people basically know that Hamas stole a lot of aid intended for innocent civilians, and that Hamas lie about that. The amount of aid they stole may have been exaggerated or not - we don’t know.

The BBC do often state the fact that Israel don’t allow international journalists into Gaza, they also will post reports saying Israel have lied about things.

But they don’t state that Hamas are a terrorist organisation or put much emphasis on the lies they have told. There’s no BBC Verify I’m aware of that exposes Hamas lies which suggests they are only interested in Israeli lies.

SharonEllis · 06/11/2025 08:22

Thedawnchorus · 06/11/2025 07:37

Here's the problem. All the lies you're attributing to Hamas have not been independently verified. I'm not saying they are not lies but for example, let's take the stealing of aid. I've heard both sides. Israel says Hamas steals most of the aid but the UN denied that Hamas steals the huge percentages of aid cited by Israel. To the contrary, they claim that the majority of the aid intercepted is by desperately hungry civilians. Now I don't want to get into an argument about this subject because, once again, without independent verification, we just don't know what the actual truth is.

What about if the BBC reported like this. "Hamas, a proscribed terrorist group, who have lied in the past, said 'this'. Israel, who don't allow international journalists into Gaza and have lied in the past said 'this'. That would be unbiased and impartial wouldn't it.

Are you saying it has not been 'independently verified' that Hamas fighters committed rape on 7 October?

dinodora · 06/11/2025 08:00

Formatting won’t work ffs!

theres 3 points there

OP posts:
dinodora · 06/11/2025 07:59

This thread isn’t about which side is right or wrong.

its about

  1. Is the phrase “from the river to the sea,” sung as part of what was actually a beautiful song, offensive? I’ve seen wide range of opinions about this. Historical context would indicate its origins being very clearly antisemitic. Has it evolved? I don’t know. It has been chanted at many marches and Jewish people in the U.K. are experiencing open antisemitism.
  2. should a bbc DJ be playing it as part of his set at a gig, given the gigs have been openly discussed on air by him and his co DJ? (Supporting small venues.)

the dj does have a twitter which has a disclaimer about personal views and not representative those of the bbc. So it indicates there’s more artistic freedom imo.

however, it’s very clear that there is impartiality in other topics of the bbc, as per recent whistleblowers.

  1. is this something we should be able to question and discuss?

yes, absolutely, from all sides. And I’m still not clear on the answer.

freedom of speech is the bedrock of democracy. We are in certain scrapes at the moment because people were discouraged from speaking out, silenced, not open to critique etc.

OP posts:
Thedawnchorus · 06/11/2025 07:37

Twiglets1 · 06/11/2025 07:10

I don’t disagree with you about the number of casualties @Thedawnchorus

In my opinion they are likely to be at least as high as Hamas say, if not higher as more bodies are discovered under rubble.

It’s everything else they say … like they don’t steal humanitarian aid & they didn’t commit rape on 7/10. Every death by IDF soldiers seems to be of innocent civilians never legitimate targets according to them. They lie about so many things and it would be helpful if the BBC reminded people sometimes that Hamas militants are terrorists.

Here's the problem. All the lies you're attributing to Hamas have not been independently verified. I'm not saying they are not lies but for example, let's take the stealing of aid. I've heard both sides. Israel says Hamas steals most of the aid but the UN denied that Hamas steals the huge percentages of aid cited by Israel. To the contrary, they claim that the majority of the aid intercepted is by desperately hungry civilians. Now I don't want to get into an argument about this subject because, once again, without independent verification, we just don't know what the actual truth is.

What about if the BBC reported like this. "Hamas, a proscribed terrorist group, who have lied in the past, said 'this'. Israel, who don't allow international journalists into Gaza and have lied in the past said 'this'. That would be unbiased and impartial wouldn't it.