Israel calling Francesca Albanese a witch!?

First you say a unified state is not in Israel's interest and we know that Israel will never cede land for a two state solution. So what kind of peace do you want the Palestinians to live in. The kind where they simply accept they are a third class group with no rights, no self determination and scarce opportunities in the land where they enjoyed all those basic rights prior to 1948. Do you believe anyone would actually accept that without resistance? The West Bank Palestinians have tried to live in peace and just get on with their lives and how has that worked out with constant state sponsored settler attacks driving them from what little land they have left. Unlike you, Israel knows this is an unworkable solution so their solution is much simpler, mass expulsion. The removal of all Palestinians from the state of Israel. Problem is, there is this little detail called international law and international public opinion that is getting in the way. Israel's international reputation is already at an all time low but if they manage to fulfill their plan and expel all the Palestinians, I have no idea how bad it will get after that and how dire the consequences will be.

A unified Palestinian State, from a pragmatic POV, is not in the best interests of Israel and presents a massive threat. Netanyahu’s responsibility is to Israelis not Palestinians.

Are you saying Netanyahu prevented Palestinians themselves from deciding that it is in their best interests to create and support a uncorrupt, competent government who genuinely renounce terrorism and wish to live in peace?

Didn’t they have that opportunity in Gaza in 2006?

How can it can argued that Palestinians should have a right to self determination while they are constantly infantilised by those who support that?

Do you think a unified Palestinian State is going to change an ideology that believes Israel shouldn’t exist?

It is disingenuous to argue that the lack of a two state solution is the problem. The problem is the existence of Israel!

From everything I've read, Netanyahu supported Hamas in order to derail the Oslo accords by supporting an opposition to a unified Palestinian entity thereby sowing discord amongst 2 geographically isolated groups and ensuring there would be a power struggle amongst the Palestinians. Divide and conquer is what they call it. I get it but maintaining that amount of chaos means you'll get bitten by the very snake you've been feeding if you take your eye off it.

I do condemn 7/10. Absolutely.

Would it have happened without the complicated history of the region - of course not.

Do you honestly believe this was so innocent?

In 2019, Mr Netanyahu told colleagues in his ruling Likud party: "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas… This is part of our strategy - to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68318856

To think that Hamas could have been financially crippled years ago.

No it is simple. Its very simple to condemn 7 October. Anyone with any sort of moral perspective does it without qualification.

Look at what is happening in Sudan- oppression and violence can occur in the absence of a religious context. Also a fight for land.

It’s not simple to disentangle.

That was in response to @Thedawnchorus .

Deflection, what a surprise. This is such a poorly thought out argument and really lacks critical thinking skills.

Hamas was created in 1988, complete with its famous Charter, and elected to govern Gaza in 2005.

Israel allowed QATAR to send money into Gaza from 2018 due an economic/humanitarian crisis and it was feared this would be a precursor to an attack in Israel.

A Palestinian State with past and present Palestinian leaders including the PA, ideology and civilian support for terrorism, is a massive security threat to Israel (Oct 7th proved that clearly!), so so what if Netanyahu acted in his country’s best interest to prevent that by allowing Qatari funding to keep Hamas contained?

Isn’t that his job?

The Palestinians elected Hamas not Israel, and how exactly were Israel to get Hamas out of power - go in and dismantle it?

Look at the global outrage at Israel trying to do exactly that after Oct 7th? Imagine that WITHOUT it being a response to Oct 7th.

I agree photos posted together like that are incredibly insensitive, and she shouldn’t have tagged them, no matter what one thinks of the validity of Netanyahu’s war crime arrest warrant and allegations of genocide against Israel.

The Holocaust was incomprehensible and is incomparable. Although historical context of recent events cannot be removed- it feels really wrong to compare like this.

You do realise that Hamas was funded by Qatar at the behest of Netanyahu. This is not even a secret or conspiracy theory. Everyone knows it.

Exactly. Its so fucking basic it hurts.

Subjugated was quite specific.

Why isn’t she shouting about Qatar’s influence in US politics, especially as Qatar has funded and sheltered Hamas and its involvement with the Muslim Brotherhood, which Hamas is a part of.

www.thefp.com/p/how-qatar-bought-america

The book is basically exactly about how US politics is "influenced" by AIPAC. Lets just say the title is about politicians who tried to oppose the lobbies and what happened to their careers. I can read you the first sentence if you like which is quite insightful. Question is, is it antisemitic that a congressman complained about the influence of a foreign country on US politics.

So, no I didn't say it. And I have never heard of the book.

On the first post of yours I responded to or are you going to get specific about the word subjugated which I suspected you will which is why I directed you to the book I mentioned.

Where did I say that?

Well because you're saying anyone who opposes AIPAC's and other similar lobbies influence in US politics is antisemitic.

? Why should I have an opinion and why do you care what my ooinion is?

What's your opinion of Paul Findley, a US congressman from Illinois, who wrote the book "They dare to speak out", published in 1985 and held 9 weeks in the Washington Post as the best seller.

And yet she chose to say something quite different to what you've said here. I agree that a discussion about the impact of lobbying per se wouldn't be anti-Semitic, but then that's got about as much to do with what Albanese actually came out with as it does with the price of fish.

What you said @MissyB1 here wasn't antisemitic. Money does talk especially in US politics. The Jewish lobby has money and influence as do many other groups in the US.

The antisemitic ( and stupid ) bit was saying that the US is 'subjugated'. Implying there is Jewish people in the background controlling everything. Its a trope. Surely you can see that?

And yet someone on Mumsnet will still try to find a way!

Lots of examples of Holocaust inversion.