Deeper understanding of why Israel was created

What rights would Jews living in Gaza or area A have? Or are they prevented from living there at all because of the danger to their lives?

I'm sorry but this is an hilarious take. Prevented from living there because of the danger to their lives?

Israelis battering the everliving shit out of Palestinians left, right and centre in the West Bank, why wouldn't Palestinians welcome them into the 40% of their land they've managed to hold onto? It's not like they've been watching the deadly behaviours of Israelis in the 60% of the West Bank they have already taken from them and would be terrified for their lives seeing Israelis pulling up. Nah its Israelis who 'are being prevented from living there' because Palestinians aren't scared, no that's just Israelis who get scared. Palestinians are dangerous right, they are the threat not the people currently running riot committing violence 🙄

I know this thread is pretty much a fact free zone but if anyone interested in reality is reading it, the population of Palestine is increasing
www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/

There isn't much more time for the Palestinians. It is the final push and I think if nothing changes soon, an entire people and culture will be consigned to the history books.

Oops. I seem to have been a bit too logical and empathetic again.

It can be changed and one day it’ll get there. Maybe not in our lifetime but we have to fight for it.

you do realise Google is free.

I have seen AI videos from certain ministers in the Israeli government about how Palestinian will be treated. Sentences are harsher for Palestinians. I’m so glad that the internet exists so we can find these truths.

Agreed. But here we are.

I’m sorry but the people responsible for behaving appalling towards Jewish people were Europeans and it was a cynical move to “create” a state where people already lived in the Middle East.

A better option, and I remain absolutely convinced of this, is to have places where everyone regardless of religion or race, are safe.

Stop believing your own propaganda. And then we might get somewhere.

No. They don’t.

You know very well that Israel, the PA and Gaza are different entities and that Palestinian citizens of Israel have equal rights.

So are Palestinians under Israeli rule or not. Is there already a two state solution? I would appreciate it if you could explain it to me because by your statement, they should already be an independent country with self determination. I don't see it that way. Would love you to explain it.

As you said, it’s like pulling teeth. Google will tell you this:

No, the entire population under Israel's effective control does not have the same rights. Rights vary significantly based on citizenship status, ethnicity, and geographic location. 1, 2, 3]
Arab Citizens Inside Israel (1948 Borders)

• Legal status: Arab citizens (about 21% of Israel's population) hold formal citizenship, meaning they have the right to vote in national elections, run for office, and access the civil court system. 1, 2, 3]
• Disparities: Human rights organizations and government reports note that Arab citizens face systemic inequalities in practice. These include lower funding for public education and infrastructure in Arab municipalities, restrictions and discrimination in housing and land allocation, and the impact of laws like the 2018 Nation-State Law, which defines Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people. 1, 2, 3, 4]
• Constitutional gap: Israel has no formal constitution or a Basic Law that explicitly guarantees a general right to equality before the law. 1]

• Under military rule: Millions of Palestinians living in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip live under Israeli military rule or blockade rather than Israeli civil law, denying them basic political and civil rights under Israeli sovereignty, such as voting in national elections or freedom of movement. 1, 2]
• Israeli Settlers: By contrast, Israeli settlers living in the same territory (the West Bank) retain full Israeli citizenship and civil rights, creating a dual legal system based on identity and nationality. 1, 2]

• Permanent residency: Palestinians in East Jerusalem mostly hold permanent residency status rather than citizenship. They can vote in municipal elections and access Israeli healthcare and social security, but they cannot vote in national Knesset elections and face a high risk of residency revocation or strict building restrictions

You said half the population of Israel. All the population of Israel have the same rights. As you well know.

So what passports do those people who are not Israeli citizens have?

Are you denying that there are millions of people living under Israeli control who have no rights and are persecuted regularly. Are you telling me those millions of people have exactly the same rights as any Israeli citizen. All the people in Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem.

A flounce? Heavens above!

What do you mean half the citizens of Israel have no rights or self determination?

Or do you mean to refer to the Palestinians in the OPT? They are not citizens of Israel. Why should they have the same rights as Israeli citizens then?

What rights would Jews living in Gaza or area A have? Or are they prevented from living there at all because of the danger to their lives?

All these threads do is re emphasize the need for a Jewish state.

For all the conflict in Sudan, Yemen, Russia / Ukraine, do we have a single thread containing post after post calling in to question the right of Russia, Sudan, even China ( for expanding into Tibet or into the Uyghurs indigenous land ) right to exist. We do not.

The utter disingenuousnes of suggesting both could live in one state without one side oppressing the other is infuriating too. These are peoples with two completely contrary ways of life. It's calling for the destruction, likely bloody, of the only Jewish nation in the world in fake polite terms.

Am Yisrsel Chai. And screw this corner of mumsnet.

Same could be said.

Google. Strangely enough. Although I already knew this. Sorry others don’t.

Where on earth are you getting your information from? You need to have a word with them. Google is your friend. I suggest you start there and put aside whatever propaganda it is that you are reading.

Literally half the population that exist in Israel have no rights or self determination. How can that not be apartheid. Even South Africans have said we lived under Apartheid but it was no where near as bad as this.

Adalah is only one organisation. There are many others that agree with them. A quick copy and paste of just some of the laws:

• One of Israel’s quasi-constitutional Basic Laws. Stipulates that the right to self-determination in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories (West Bank, East Jerusalem, Gaza) “is unique to the Jewish people” and encourages racial segregation and discrimination against Palestinians in housing by directing the state to promote the “development of Jewish settlement as a national value.”

• Stipulates death by hanging for Palestinians convicted of killings defined as “acts of terrorism” under Israeli law with no due process in Israel’s military court system. Israel’s military courts have a conviction rate of more than 95%(this link opens in a new window) against Palestinians and have been condemned as fundamentally unjust by rights groups. Was written so it applies exclusively to Palestinians and not to Jewish Israelis who kill Palestinians in acts of terrorism. Amnesty International called(this link opens in a new window) it “one of the world’s most extreme death penalty laws.”
• laws.”

• Gives Jews from anywhere in the world the right to immigrate to Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories and to automatically receive Israeli citizenship. At the same time, Israel denies indigenous Palestinians who were expelled during and after Israel’s establishment their legal right to return to their homeland because they aren’t Jewish and treats Palestinians with Israeli citizenship, who comprise more than 20% of Israel’s population, as second-class citizens.

4. The Admissions Committee Law

• Authorizes hundreds of smaller towns to set up “admissions committees” to reject applications from Palestinians, LGBTQ people, and others deemed undesirable using criteria such as being “unsuitable to the social life of the community… or the social and cultural fabric of the town.”

5. Absentee Property Law and Land Acquisition Law

• Allows Israel’s government to expropriate land and other property belonging to Palestinians who were driven from their homes during the state’s establishment. The primary tool used by Israel to steal huge amounts of land and private property from Palestinians who were expelled and denied their right to return, including many internally displaced within Israel’s borders.

• Another of Israel’s quasi-constitutional Basic Laws stipulates that ownership of state lands can only be transferred between the government and quasi-governmental agencies like the Jewish National Fund, which only leases land to Jews. Ninety-three percent of the land in Israel is state owned. Israel’s discriminatory land policies make it extremely difficult for Palestinians with Israeli citizenship to gain access to land for residential, commercial, agricultural, or other uses.
• uses.

• Prevents Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza who are married to Palestinian citizens of Israel from gaining residency or citizenship status, including those who were expelled from towns inside what became Israel in 1948. Forces thousands of Palestinian citizens of Israel to leave the country or live apart from their spouses and families.

8. The Nakba Law

• Bans public funding for institutions and organizations involved in commemorating the violent expulsion of three quarters of all Palestinians during Israel’s establishment as a Jewish-majority state in 1948, known to Palestinians as the “Nakba” (“catastrophe”).